Sunday, March 25, 2007
Crossroads, Part 2
Part 1 of this two part episode remains the best episode of what was a lousy season. Part 2 was only a mediocre followup.
The quality of the trial deteriorated. Last week, I praised the writers for creating a trial that actually followed the rules of procedure of American courts. This ended when Apollo was allowed to "testify" about what an unfair deal Baltar was getting.
Now, it was acceptable for Lampkin to put Apollo on the stand to testify about the senior Adama's impartiality, beause Apollo is the only one who had personal knowledge of the Admiral's statements. But he never testified about that, and instead was allowed to, essentially, give a closing argument from the witness stand.
Another thing I wonder about is why Lampkin didn't put Baltar on the witness stand? Now, the usual rule of defense attorneys is to never put their clients on the stand, but this is because 99% of the time their clients are guilty, so the client can't do anything to help his cause without committing perjury, and whatever jokes people like to make about lawyers, most of them are honest enough to not condone perjury.
Not calling Baltar as a witness makes him look guilty. Baltar the witness could have explained how Gaeta was lying, how the Cylons were running everything and they had a gun pointed to him.
One reason not to have even an innocent defendant testify is that the prosecution would be able to bring up additional evidence to impeach his testimiony. But I don't know what that evidence might have been. Roslyn's remembering of seeing Baltar and Six together on Caprica would not be admissible if it weren't already admissible as part of the prosecution's case. And no one besides Baltar seems to know about him giving a nuclear bomb to a Six (a crime that he is guilty of and ought to be convicted of--it continues to be strange that no one investigated that incident).
Why was Lampkin such a genius last week in figuring out that Tigh murdered his wife, yet seemed completely incapable of cross examining Gaeta? At least he could have brought up the fact that Gaeta went all psycho on Baltar in the brig. Gaeta truly does hate Baltar enough to perjure himself in order to see Baltar convicted.
And this brings up the usual issue of hypocrisy coming from the characters. It was not so many episodes ago that Gaeta was unfairly tried at a Star Chamber and almost executed. So you would think that, after what he went through, he would want to uphold justice. But instead, he commits the crime of perjury by lying about the incident where Baltar was handed the order to execute the humans.
The outcome of the trial shouldn't be especially surprising. First of all, Baltar truly is not guilty of the "crime" he's being charged with. Secondly, if he were executed, that would be the end of the show's best character, giving people one less reason to tune in next season.
Let's go back to Gaeta. What was Gaeta's motiviation for lying at the trial? Up until he tried to kill Baltar, he always seemed like the choir boy of the show, always following the rules. He's the last person you'd expect to lie on the witness stand.
Could Gaeta be a Cylon? There are certainly a lot of hints:
(1) He has a fascination, or even an obsession, with Gaius Baltar, something that seems to be shared by all of the Cylons. The fascination turned from following him around like a puppydog to now hating him, but the constant is that Gaius Baltar is someone that Gaeta is always awed by.
(2) Gaeta is especially good with computers, the best computer person in the fleet after Baltar. Does his propensity to understand computers have something to do with him being a Cylon?
(3) We know nothing about Gaeta's background. So there's no evidence that he's not a Cylon.
(4) Gaeta seems to be asexual, at least compared to the hypersexuality of the rest of the crew. One thing we observe about the Cylons is that the female models seem to all be nymphomaniacs, but the male models have a lot of sexual hangups. (Typical of a race created by geeky sci-fi writers?) Gaeta being a Cylon would explain his behavior.
(5) Gaeta was the chief architect in getting the fleet to its current location, where there was a Cylon fleet waiting. Coincidence?
Could Romo Lampkin also be a Cylon? This would explain why he refused to cross-examine Gaeta. Because of honor among Cylons. Also, this explains his motivation in defending Baltar. As I wrote above, all the Cylons have a strange fascination with him. (Then there is the issue of the sunglasses, which suddenly come back on after he walks away from Apollo after telling him that he's honest, unlike his grandfather. Do the sunglasses have anything to do with Lampkin being a Cylon? Probably he just wears them to intimidate people, and he didn't wear them during the trial because that would make him seem dishonest.)
But wait, if Lampkin and Gaeta are both Cylons, and if you then add in the foursome of Tigh, Anders, Tyrol, and Tori (the only one of the four who goes by her first name), then that makes a final six rather than a final five.
Actually, we have no clue right now as to whether or not the four are Cylons. All we know is that they've been hearing strange music, and now they think they are Cylons. Gaius Baltar also thought he was a Cylon, but as far as we know he's not.
Finally, let me comment about Starbuck's return. With all the weird music being played, the final scene had a very surreal quality which could easily lead me to think it was a dream and wasn't really happening. But the end of the previous season (where the Cylons invaded new Caprica), also had a surreal quality, and that also really happened. So this probably just continues the trend of Ron Moore and the guys getting too cutesy with the last episode of the season. I can only assume that, by some strange miracle, Starbuck really is alive and she really has been to earth
Comments:
Umm to make sure i am clear on the fith one it is starbuck? Was anyone else as shocked as i was when colonal tie was in the room?
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posted by 
: 3/25/2007 11:59 PM
: 3/25/2007 11:59 PM
I am well am truly obsessed to be commenting this quickly. Ah, well, I'll have a while to get over it. (Spoilers galore below!)
Quickly:
1) The Baltar verdict is comprehensible given the charges (though it is very convenient how Adama always teeters to the side of right in the end), but why the frak didn't they charge him with more? I mean, they found him on a bloody baseship working with the Cylons! There was one (1) missing nuke in the fleet when Cloud Nine exploded, and guess whose it was?
2) Tigh, Tyrol, Foster, and Anders: all this foreshadowing is too obvious. I am very suspicious of whether they are really Cylons. But then it would bit more than a bit lame to lead us on in such a way, no?
My girlfriend made the observation that the music started exactly when the fuel ship's radiation leak (which has prsumably existed since the attacks) was fixed. She suggested that the music was a homing signal being broadcast to the Final Five by the one of their own. If the Funky Four are indeed Cylons, that would explain why they hear it themselves. This would suggest the last of the Final Five is not a sleeper agent (but is a Hendrix fan).
3) The ending with Starbuck, the pan to Earth, and All Along the Watchtower. This — seeing the Colonials rock out to Hendrix — this was pretty unexpected. I really, really hope that when they get to Earth (which they must soon) it is not in anything approaching our time period. The results of that would be — shark-jumping doesn't even begin to capture it. Let it be a ruined and devastated planet, let it be the Cylon homeworld, let it be the Planet of the Apes even, but not that.
Quickly:
1) The Baltar verdict is comprehensible given the charges (though it is very convenient how Adama always teeters to the side of right in the end), but why the frak didn't they charge him with more? I mean, they found him on a bloody baseship working with the Cylons! There was one (1) missing nuke in the fleet when Cloud Nine exploded, and guess whose it was?
2) Tigh, Tyrol, Foster, and Anders: all this foreshadowing is too obvious. I am very suspicious of whether they are really Cylons. But then it would bit more than a bit lame to lead us on in such a way, no?
My girlfriend made the observation that the music started exactly when the fuel ship's radiation leak (which has prsumably existed since the attacks) was fixed. She suggested that the music was a homing signal being broadcast to the Final Five by the one of their own. If the Funky Four are indeed Cylons, that would explain why they hear it themselves. This would suggest the last of the Final Five is not a sleeper agent (but is a Hendrix fan).
3) The ending with Starbuck, the pan to Earth, and All Along the Watchtower. This — seeing the Colonials rock out to Hendrix — this was pretty unexpected. I really, really hope that when they get to Earth (which they must soon) it is not in anything approaching our time period. The results of that would be — shark-jumping doesn't even begin to capture it. Let it be a ruined and devastated planet, let it be the Cylon homeworld, let it be the Planet of the Apes even, but not that.
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posted by : 3/26/2007 12:03 AM
: 3/26/2007 12:03 AM
O.K. I have to say this; they have Galactica 1980 this. I can buy the 5 cylons; no problem. I just have a problem with this whole happy feel good vibe between the final 5 and the humans. Hello... they massacred the colonist. Mass murderers = bad guys. Although, I have to admit that I find it funny that poor little Baltar turned out not to be a cylon. But, the series will go to doggy doo from here.
upchuck721, first off, we don't have a happy feel good vibe with the F5 yet. We don't have any kind of vibe at all.
Next, there's no evidence the Final Five had anything to do with the genocide at all. They obviously have some affiliation with the original seven to be worthy of the name "Cylon", but the magnitude of that interaction is not at all clear.
Now, I don't think the Final Five will turn out to be antagonists in the way the other Cylons are. I'm thinking the Final Five ship is the one Apollo saw after he ran into Starbuck, and that it'll turn out to have some recycled elements of the Ship of Lights idea.
Next, there's no evidence the Final Five had anything to do with the genocide at all. They obviously have some affiliation with the original seven to be worthy of the name "Cylon", but the magnitude of that interaction is not at all clear.
Now, I don't think the Final Five will turn out to be antagonists in the way the other Cylons are. I'm thinking the Final Five ship is the one Apollo saw after he ran into Starbuck, and that it'll turn out to have some recycled elements of the Ship of Lights idea.
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posted by : 3/26/2007 2:37 AM
: 3/26/2007 2:37 AM
matt said...
this was by far the best espisode of the entire series. i have not been as captivated by an episode yet. the verdict did not surprise me, but it just sets the stage for something larger for Baltar's fate, also the apparant disclosure of four of the final five is intriguing. I agree with saf in that it was obvious in a way and suspicious, but I don't think that this is meant to mislead us....yet. i also don't find it strange that they seem to be still devoted to the humans. Maybe this is something that the Cylons did not expect. That the final five would actually end up saving the human race due to the fact that the cylons seem to have one weekness and that has been the ability to show free will. I had read so many blogs that were 99 percent sure that Starbuck was really gone for good, but I just didn't believe it, but I am not convinced that she is the fifth of the final five. I am going to watch the episode again today, which is always good with this show. You can always see things that you miss so easily the first time. That is what makes the show so addicting and by far the best on TV, which I was saying far before they started to say this before every preview commercial. Having said all of this I am completely depressed that I will have to wait seven months to see a new episode, but it will be worth it. This episode should be nominated as the best of any series this year. It was in every way brilliant.
this was by far the best espisode of the entire series. i have not been as captivated by an episode yet. the verdict did not surprise me, but it just sets the stage for something larger for Baltar's fate, also the apparant disclosure of four of the final five is intriguing. I agree with saf in that it was obvious in a way and suspicious, but I don't think that this is meant to mislead us....yet. i also don't find it strange that they seem to be still devoted to the humans. Maybe this is something that the Cylons did not expect. That the final five would actually end up saving the human race due to the fact that the cylons seem to have one weekness and that has been the ability to show free will. I had read so many blogs that were 99 percent sure that Starbuck was really gone for good, but I just didn't believe it, but I am not convinced that she is the fifth of the final five. I am going to watch the episode again today, which is always good with this show. You can always see things that you miss so easily the first time. That is what makes the show so addicting and by far the best on TV, which I was saying far before they started to say this before every preview commercial. Having said all of this I am completely depressed that I will have to wait seven months to see a new episode, but it will be worth it. This episode should be nominated as the best of any series this year. It was in every way brilliant.
This ep was one of the best this season.
Baltar: It was good to see him get off the hook, i think it will be an interesting story line, especially how he will "live off" those who worship him. I like how Lampin is gone too, he annoys me.
4 freaks?: Well i am wondering, are they REALLY cylons? I mean tigh out of all people! He was so cruel to boomer is "scattered", it just doesn't seem right.
Why are Tori and Anders getting it on? And i kinda of got a hint at the end of season two that Tyrol was a cylon... interesting how this plays out though.
Starbuck is back! I thought the last 10 mins was the best, the nebula looks awesome!
8.5/10
ps. I'm starting to get annoyed with "ensign Anders" it's just too weird. He's Gurella, not military!, hahahaha
Baltar: It was good to see him get off the hook, i think it will be an interesting story line, especially how he will "live off" those who worship him. I like how Lampin is gone too, he annoys me.
4 freaks?: Well i am wondering, are they REALLY cylons? I mean tigh out of all people! He was so cruel to boomer is "scattered", it just doesn't seem right.
Why are Tori and Anders getting it on? And i kinda of got a hint at the end of season two that Tyrol was a cylon... interesting how this plays out though.
Starbuck is back! I thought the last 10 mins was the best, the nebula looks awesome!
8.5/10
ps. I'm starting to get annoyed with "ensign Anders" it's just too weird. He's Gurella, not military!, hahahaha
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posted by : 3/26/2007 9:22 AM
: 3/26/2007 9:22 AM
I thought the use of the Bob Dylan song was pretty hokie at first (with the four repeating the lyrics). But the version of the song used fit so well with the visual that everything worked out... very very kool. Its obvious that Moore had the song in his head before the video.
It became pretty obvious where the story was going with the four as soon as the showed Starbucks husband and the Chief hearing the music.
Col Tigh:
Col. Tigh seems too old to be a Cylon. Adama has known him for 40 years... did the Cylons have this technology that long ago? I thought the technology had been developed after the first Cylon war. Therefore how could Col Tigh have been a Cylon for that long. Perhaps the Real Col Tigh was abducted by the Cylons on New Caprica and replaced with this Col Tigh.
Starbuck:
It would seem that Starbuck is the 5th Cylon. Is she really there in the viper? She could also be in Lee Adama's head, similar to the Cylon in Baltar's head.
President:
The President could be a cylon. After all she was sharing the same dream with the other Cylons. Moreover, the use of the Cylon blood cured her cancer...
Earth:
It would make more logical sense if it turns out that the 12 colonies were originally populated by people fleeing earth tens of thousands of years ago, perhaps from some global calamity such as a meteor. This would explain why the 12 colonies have different races etc....
And that when they visit it in the show, it would be devoid of humans (but livable).
Nothing is ever logical in this show though, which is why the show is great!
It became pretty obvious where the story was going with the four as soon as the showed Starbucks husband and the Chief hearing the music.
Col Tigh:
Col. Tigh seems too old to be a Cylon. Adama has known him for 40 years... did the Cylons have this technology that long ago? I thought the technology had been developed after the first Cylon war. Therefore how could Col Tigh have been a Cylon for that long. Perhaps the Real Col Tigh was abducted by the Cylons on New Caprica and replaced with this Col Tigh.
Starbuck:
It would seem that Starbuck is the 5th Cylon. Is she really there in the viper? She could also be in Lee Adama's head, similar to the Cylon in Baltar's head.
President:
The President could be a cylon. After all she was sharing the same dream with the other Cylons. Moreover, the use of the Cylon blood cured her cancer...
Earth:
It would make more logical sense if it turns out that the 12 colonies were originally populated by people fleeing earth tens of thousands of years ago, perhaps from some global calamity such as a meteor. This would explain why the 12 colonies have different races etc....
And that when they visit it in the show, it would be devoid of humans (but livable).
Nothing is ever logical in this show though, which is why the show is great!
I think crossroads II was an excellent episode and brought some of the intrigue and mystery that was missing in season 3 back. While it was a good episode some of the plot devices were deeply flawed.
A song calling the final four cylons to meet in the rec room of the ship? They could save this scene, with a good explanation as to why in the season 4 opener. However, I can't think of any excuses that make sense. Who knows?
The trial of Balter did go astray, however I am a fan of it and here is why. Lee Adama said it when he pointed out that much of their society was broken and messed up. As nothing more than a mob on the run fighting for survival. A lot of the things that make sense in a normal society don't make sense anymore in the situation they are in. If we put ourselves in that situation, would we be able to have a "normal" trial to prosecute someone? And he was also correct when he mentioned that if they killed Baltar (for the crime he was on trial for) then they needed to kill half the leadership of the fleet.
In other words, the life they lead is no longer black and white. Or at least as black and white as a normal life can be. Everyone is making mistakes in the name of survival and making hard decisions.
On the cylon reveal. I am really hoping that we get to season 4 and find out that not all four of them are really cylons. I think one of the better parts of this show was the constant wander of who the cylons actually were. Revealing 4 of them at the same time is just way too much. Now while I don't like it, I can see that decision might have been made when they thought that they might only have 13 episodes of a final season left and not much time to tie everything up.
Now with 22 episodes, I think they are going to have to do too many filler episodes which will piss of fans even more.
JT
A song calling the final four cylons to meet in the rec room of the ship? They could save this scene, with a good explanation as to why in the season 4 opener. However, I can't think of any excuses that make sense. Who knows?
The trial of Balter did go astray, however I am a fan of it and here is why. Lee Adama said it when he pointed out that much of their society was broken and messed up. As nothing more than a mob on the run fighting for survival. A lot of the things that make sense in a normal society don't make sense anymore in the situation they are in. If we put ourselves in that situation, would we be able to have a "normal" trial to prosecute someone? And he was also correct when he mentioned that if they killed Baltar (for the crime he was on trial for) then they needed to kill half the leadership of the fleet.
In other words, the life they lead is no longer black and white. Or at least as black and white as a normal life can be. Everyone is making mistakes in the name of survival and making hard decisions.
On the cylon reveal. I am really hoping that we get to season 4 and find out that not all four of them are really cylons. I think one of the better parts of this show was the constant wander of who the cylons actually were. Revealing 4 of them at the same time is just way too much. Now while I don't like it, I can see that decision might have been made when they thought that they might only have 13 episodes of a final season left and not much time to tie everything up.
Now with 22 episodes, I think they are going to have to do too many filler episodes which will piss of fans even more.
JT
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posted by : 3/26/2007 11:34 AM
: 3/26/2007 11:34 AM
Responding to your points, Michael:
The trial process was the weakest part of the episode, and I agree that they ought to have had more cross-examination and testimony. At least they had the decency to make the prosecutor completely exasperated by the fact that Lee was allowed to testify ("no, I have no questions for defence counsel!").
I think it's a bit much to call Gaeta a hypocrite just because he had been mistreated before. Being treated unjustly doesn't automatically make you a paragon of justice.
Gaeta always has been a perfect candidate to be a Cylon, as is Dualla. His status as informer does suggest some non-feigned concern for the fate of the Colonials, but other than that, there's no clear evidence. However, his attitudes on Baltarm progressing from near-worship to gradually increasing disgust to homicidal rage make sense, when you think of all the crap he probably had to go through while Baltar was off on his orgies with Cylon and human alike. Sure, Baltar had to surrender, but he could have at least had the decency of not allowing himself to be used as a figurehead. It doesn't make him a killer though.
As for Cylon sexuality, the only militantly sexual model is Six. Three and Eight are sexual, but don't come across as outright nymphos. As for the males, Cavil seems to have a healthy appetite in that department, and we don't know anything about the others except Leoben, who I will admit is a headcase, but maybe only about Starbuck.
Lampkin's sunglasses don't say anything concrete about whether he's a Cylon, I think. I think his putting them back on was partly because he no longer needed to show off his cuts and scars to generate sympathy, as he was doing with the cane. And if he is a Cylon, I am sure the four others are not.
The trial process was the weakest part of the episode, and I agree that they ought to have had more cross-examination and testimony. At least they had the decency to make the prosecutor completely exasperated by the fact that Lee was allowed to testify ("no, I have no questions for defence counsel!").
I think it's a bit much to call Gaeta a hypocrite just because he had been mistreated before. Being treated unjustly doesn't automatically make you a paragon of justice.
Gaeta always has been a perfect candidate to be a Cylon, as is Dualla. His status as informer does suggest some non-feigned concern for the fate of the Colonials, but other than that, there's no clear evidence. However, his attitudes on Baltarm progressing from near-worship to gradually increasing disgust to homicidal rage make sense, when you think of all the crap he probably had to go through while Baltar was off on his orgies with Cylon and human alike. Sure, Baltar had to surrender, but he could have at least had the decency of not allowing himself to be used as a figurehead. It doesn't make him a killer though.
As for Cylon sexuality, the only militantly sexual model is Six. Three and Eight are sexual, but don't come across as outright nymphos. As for the males, Cavil seems to have a healthy appetite in that department, and we don't know anything about the others except Leoben, who I will admit is a headcase, but maybe only about Starbuck.
Lampkin's sunglasses don't say anything concrete about whether he's a Cylon, I think. I think his putting them back on was partly because he no longer needed to show off his cuts and scars to generate sympathy, as he was doing with the cane. And if he is a Cylon, I am sure the four others are not.
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posted by : 3/26/2007 11:58 AM
: 3/26/2007 11:58 AM
I enjoyed the finale, but...
2008?!?! They aren't coming back for 9 frakkin' months?!?!
R U kidding me?
2008?!?! They aren't coming back for 9 frakkin' months?!?!
R U kidding me?
Sorry, but you can't constantly predicate a show on who is and is not a Cylon. This is especially true since they do have a Cylon detector that works. Did they not test everyone? They even used it this season to test, IIRC, Bulldog.
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posted by : 3/26/2007 12:49 PM
: 3/26/2007 12:49 PM
Am I not correct in that all four of the "revealed" cylons were at one time or another held by the cylons?
Could not this simply be some sort of conditioning.
I thought that the cylons were able to track the human fleet because they had embedded those humans they had with a homing device that would allow them to be tracked.
If Kara is back, she's a cylon. I knew she'd be back the minute her ship exploded.
I agree that the last five minutes was great with the pull back to reveal earth.
Has anyone a screen capture? I didn't see lights from the dark side. Could this be in our past?
I agree if they come to the "now" it will be lame...
Could not this simply be some sort of conditioning.
I thought that the cylons were able to track the human fleet because they had embedded those humans they had with a homing device that would allow them to be tracked.
If Kara is back, she's a cylon. I knew she'd be back the minute her ship exploded.
I agree that the last five minutes was great with the pull back to reveal earth.
Has anyone a screen capture? I didn't see lights from the dark side. Could this be in our past?
I agree if they come to the "now" it will be lame...
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posted by : 3/26/2007 2:50 PM
: 3/26/2007 2:50 PM
I've been to Earth, and to prove it I downloaded a cover version of "All Along the Watchtower" to my Ipod!
Just a few thoughts for the mix.
Can the music only be heard by a certain "tuned in" few? There may have been others on the other ships.
The nebula looks like Orion, 1500 light years out. If they are picking up Hendrix, he's been dead over 1539 years, so is the Galactica is heading for a future Earth, which may have their own share of problems and mechanical mayhem. Who says the government or governments on earth may not have their own agenda, or even be happy that a Cylon threat has been brought to their front door? oopsie. 2008!?! arrgh!
Can the music only be heard by a certain "tuned in" few? There may have been others on the other ships.
The nebula looks like Orion, 1500 light years out. If they are picking up Hendrix, he's been dead over 1539 years, so is the Galactica is heading for a future Earth, which may have their own share of problems and mechanical mayhem. Who says the government or governments on earth may not have their own agenda, or even be happy that a Cylon threat has been brought to their front door? oopsie. 2008!?! arrgh!
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posted by : 3/26/2007 3:47 PM
: 3/26/2007 3:47 PM
Anybody else a little confused here? Do the writers even remember the rules that they made up at the beginning of the series in regards to Cylons? Here is a list of reasons why Tigh, Tyrol and Anders CAN NOT be Cylons.
1) Tigh was involved in the 1st Cylon war. It was mentioned that the technology to create the “skin-job” Cylons developed after the Cylon’s broke communications with the humans.
2) Tyrol has a freakin’ kid. He made boom boom with Callie and they had a son. If having hybrid babies was so easy then why is Athena and Helo’s kid (Hera) such a big deal? And if interbreeding humans and Cylons was so easy then why do the Cylons have that “farm” thingy back on Caprica?
3) Anders caught pneumonia on New Caprica and was near death for a while. Wasn’t it already established that Cylons were impervious to all of the human diseases?
AND Tigh and Tyrol both went aboard the supply station at the beginning of the series. Remember, that’s the station that is surrounded by a nebula that is radioactive to Cylons and kills them steadily after too much exposure. Look what it did to Leoben that was in it for only couple hours.
ALSO Anders was on Caprica after the Cylon attack and needed anti-radioactive meds. He and Starbuck talked about it after the raid they did to secure some supplies.
It’s no surprise that the writers are taking a looooong hiatus this time, they’re going to need it to figure out how they are going to fill in all the plot gaps that are now emerging from traveling down this storyline.
1) Tigh was involved in the 1st Cylon war. It was mentioned that the technology to create the “skin-job” Cylons developed after the Cylon’s broke communications with the humans.
2) Tyrol has a freakin’ kid. He made boom boom with Callie and they had a son. If having hybrid babies was so easy then why is Athena and Helo’s kid (Hera) such a big deal? And if interbreeding humans and Cylons was so easy then why do the Cylons have that “farm” thingy back on Caprica?
3) Anders caught pneumonia on New Caprica and was near death for a while. Wasn’t it already established that Cylons were impervious to all of the human diseases?
AND Tigh and Tyrol both went aboard the supply station at the beginning of the series. Remember, that’s the station that is surrounded by a nebula that is radioactive to Cylons and kills them steadily after too much exposure. Look what it did to Leoben that was in it for only couple hours.
ALSO Anders was on Caprica after the Cylon attack and needed anti-radioactive meds. He and Starbuck talked about it after the raid they did to secure some supplies.
It’s no surprise that the writers are taking a looooong hiatus this time, they’re going to need it to figure out how they are going to fill in all the plot gaps that are now emerging from traveling down this storyline.
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posted by : 3/26/2007 4:11 PM
: 3/26/2007 4:11 PM
I think I am the nut who started the mess about the sunglasses. What tipped me off was in Crossroads I he took off his sunglasses while talking to Six and when he did she seemed to automatically understand him where she wasn't interested before. This led me to believe that there was a reason he had them on most of the time.. It was a good conclusion with what little info I had..
However after seeing part II, I have come to the conclusion that the glasses were just part of the character and his cockiness.
Of course if Ron Moore and gang prove me wrong I will jump back on that boat.. lol :)
JT
However after seeing part II, I have come to the conclusion that the glasses were just part of the character and his cockiness.
Of course if Ron Moore and gang prove me wrong I will jump back on that boat.. lol :)
JT
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posted by : 3/26/2007 4:24 PM
: 3/26/2007 4:24 PM
What if they are really 4 of the final five? what if they are part of a different faction of cylons? Cylons that are more individual and have embraced their individuality. I think what's going to happen is that the final 5 are going to at it with the older cylons with galatica somehow getting caught in the middle.
As far as Starbuck, I don't think she's a cylon. I think she got caught in the "Nexus" (Star trek reference) lol
Baltar is on his way to becomming the most powerful man in the fleet, this time on his terms. We all know what radical religious beliefs can breed, and baltar being treated as a god is going to cause all kind of problems for everyone, including himself.
Roslyn, why don't they take blood from the 6 and cure her cancer again? lol
That's my 2 cents until 2008
As far as Starbuck, I don't think she's a cylon. I think she got caught in the "Nexus" (Star trek reference) lol
Baltar is on his way to becomming the most powerful man in the fleet, this time on his terms. We all know what radical religious beliefs can breed, and baltar being treated as a god is going to cause all kind of problems for everyone, including himself.
Roslyn, why don't they take blood from the 6 and cure her cancer again? lol
That's my 2 cents until 2008
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posted by : 3/26/2007 4:31 PM
: 3/26/2007 4:31 PM
http://www.aintitcool.com/node/32045
In an interview with the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette’s Rob Owen, Moore reveals that, yes, Galen Tyrol, Saul Tigh, Sam Anders and Tory Foster are indeed four of the “final five” Cylons. But Moore also cautions that they are “fundamentally different Cylons.”
Interesting.
Really, this all makes little sense, but it's hard to say without seeing how it will all play out.
Moore’s comments you linked to contradict some of his earlier comments about the nature of Cylons, but perhaps he’s changed his mind, or the early comments about how the Cylons created the 12 models were misdirection.
Last night’s episode was good, if a bit unorganized. However, the scene where they started quoting Dylan lyrics was, IMHO, unintentionally hilarious. But the rest was good enough to ignore that.
I still don’t see how, given last night’s episode, there were Cylons years before there were, well, Cylons. (Also - why is Hera so special, since now we have at least one other Cylon-human hybrid - unless Cally had an affair?)
It also means that every major incident in the last 50+ years of the BSG universe has been predetermined/predestined by some outside force. It actually makes several earlier episodes that relied a lot on too much coincidence (”Hero” for example) more comprehensible.
Well, we’ll see how it all pans out in 2008.
I just hope this isn’t a problem like Star Trek:TNG - really cool cliffhangers at season’s end with lame resolution next season. But BSG hasn’t disappointed yet in that area.
In an interview with the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette’s Rob Owen, Moore reveals that, yes, Galen Tyrol, Saul Tigh, Sam Anders and Tory Foster are indeed four of the “final five” Cylons. But Moore also cautions that they are “fundamentally different Cylons.”
Interesting.
Really, this all makes little sense, but it's hard to say without seeing how it will all play out.
Moore’s comments you linked to contradict some of his earlier comments about the nature of Cylons, but perhaps he’s changed his mind, or the early comments about how the Cylons created the 12 models were misdirection.
Last night’s episode was good, if a bit unorganized. However, the scene where they started quoting Dylan lyrics was, IMHO, unintentionally hilarious. But the rest was good enough to ignore that.
I still don’t see how, given last night’s episode, there were Cylons years before there were, well, Cylons. (Also - why is Hera so special, since now we have at least one other Cylon-human hybrid - unless Cally had an affair?)
It also means that every major incident in the last 50+ years of the BSG universe has been predetermined/predestined by some outside force. It actually makes several earlier episodes that relied a lot on too much coincidence (”Hero” for example) more comprehensible.
Well, we’ll see how it all pans out in 2008.
I just hope this isn’t a problem like Star Trek:TNG - really cool cliffhangers at season’s end with lame resolution next season. But BSG hasn’t disappointed yet in that area.
Argh. I was liking the episode until I read that damned interview with Moore. But there he manages to undermine most of my remaining faith in the series.
Apparently, he only decided that the four would be Cylons in the latter half of this season, and only decided that Roslin got her cancer back when writing the script for Crossroads.
Dude, do you have to tell us that you're making it up on the fly? What's the point of making us guess when even you don't know?
They're Cylons, just different Cylons. Fine, I can buy that. But I have a sinking feeling about how all these explorations of the new Cylons' past histories is going to turn out: retconned prequels which either destroy continuity outright or bend it beyond recognition.
There were so many other interesting ways to have taken this. Reveal that the implicit equating of the five Cylons and the five priests was actually false. Decide that the entire human race are Cylon-human hybrids, from an experiment with cybernetics on Kobol (all of this will happen again); then "Adama is a Cylon" would even make sense. Reveal that all the Cylons into gods.
This half-assed flying by the seat of the pants is the single worst thing about the series. They can pull it off most of the time, but now and then it's hard not to notice the pieces of scaffolding left over from hasty construction.
Apparently, he only decided that the four would be Cylons in the latter half of this season, and only decided that Roslin got her cancer back when writing the script for Crossroads.
Dude, do you have to tell us that you're making it up on the fly? What's the point of making us guess when even you don't know?
They're Cylons, just different Cylons. Fine, I can buy that. But I have a sinking feeling about how all these explorations of the new Cylons' past histories is going to turn out: retconned prequels which either destroy continuity outright or bend it beyond recognition.
There were so many other interesting ways to have taken this. Reveal that the implicit equating of the five Cylons and the five priests was actually false. Decide that the entire human race are Cylon-human hybrids, from an experiment with cybernetics on Kobol (all of this will happen again); then "Adama is a Cylon" would even make sense. Reveal that all the Cylons into gods.
This half-assed flying by the seat of the pants is the single worst thing about the series. They can pull it off most of the time, but now and then it's hard not to notice the pieces of scaffolding left over from hasty construction.
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posted by : 3/26/2007 7:59 PM
: 3/26/2007 7:59 PM
OK, here's a scenario.
About 75,000 years ago, some beings come to Earth and say, "Hey, cute Neanderthals. Let's take some." And they do, bringing them to a planet -- Kobol.
The Neanderthals do the evolution thing, eventually becoming modern humans who interact with the beings who originally brought them to Kobol.
For some reason, there's a need to leave Kobol -- maybe a natural disaster, maybe an argument among the "gods," whatever.
Of the Kobolians, 12 factions set off for a new star system, but a 13th says, "Hey, we wanna go back to the homeworld. Earth."
And they do.
Arriving at Earth, things don't go so well in terms of their civilization. It collapses within a few hundred years. But they're still able to out-do the Neanderthals living there, eventually becoming the dominant life form. (After all, it's not clear why homo sapiens suddenly took over from Homo neanderthalensis.)
Thus we have stone-age humans on Earth, while a more advanced civilization flourishes on the 12 colonies.
Almost two thousand years pass. The Cylons (created by humans) leave, and bump into none other than the "gods" -- the beings who brought the humans to Kobol.
The Cylons recognize the "gods" as advanced life forms, but not worthy of worship. Instead, they begin to obsess about being human.
The "gods" teach the Cylons about humans, helping them create humanoid versions of themselves. But, knowing the Cylons (and humans) might want to find Earth someday, they also plant five special Cylons in human culture -- Cylons that are designed to help bring everyone to Earth when the time is right.
When is the time right? When they're capable of reaching a point in space on the road to Earth. Which is what happened in Crossroads part 1.
The genocide wasn't part of the plan. It was all about bringing everyone back together where it all started: Earth.
It's a pre-civilization Earth to be sure (no lights on the night side at the end of Crossroads 2), but it's Earth.
Maybe the "gods" will make them give up all their tech before they land, and they'll become our ancestors.
Or... everything in this post is probably wrong. :)
About 75,000 years ago, some beings come to Earth and say, "Hey, cute Neanderthals. Let's take some." And they do, bringing them to a planet -- Kobol.
The Neanderthals do the evolution thing, eventually becoming modern humans who interact with the beings who originally brought them to Kobol.
For some reason, there's a need to leave Kobol -- maybe a natural disaster, maybe an argument among the "gods," whatever.
Of the Kobolians, 12 factions set off for a new star system, but a 13th says, "Hey, we wanna go back to the homeworld. Earth."
And they do.
Arriving at Earth, things don't go so well in terms of their civilization. It collapses within a few hundred years. But they're still able to out-do the Neanderthals living there, eventually becoming the dominant life form. (After all, it's not clear why homo sapiens suddenly took over from Homo neanderthalensis.)
Thus we have stone-age humans on Earth, while a more advanced civilization flourishes on the 12 colonies.
Almost two thousand years pass. The Cylons (created by humans) leave, and bump into none other than the "gods" -- the beings who brought the humans to Kobol.
The Cylons recognize the "gods" as advanced life forms, but not worthy of worship. Instead, they begin to obsess about being human.
The "gods" teach the Cylons about humans, helping them create humanoid versions of themselves. But, knowing the Cylons (and humans) might want to find Earth someday, they also plant five special Cylons in human culture -- Cylons that are designed to help bring everyone to Earth when the time is right.
When is the time right? When they're capable of reaching a point in space on the road to Earth. Which is what happened in Crossroads part 1.
The genocide wasn't part of the plan. It was all about bringing everyone back together where it all started: Earth.
It's a pre-civilization Earth to be sure (no lights on the night side at the end of Crossroads 2), but it's Earth.
Maybe the "gods" will make them give up all their tech before they land, and they'll become our ancestors.
Or... everything in this post is probably wrong. :)
I think it's all pretty obvious:
Bob Dylan is a Cylon and they're going to reach Earth Circa 1980.
Just in time for that season of Dallas where Bobby's death was all a dream.
Bob Dylan is a Cylon and they're going to reach Earth Circa 1980.
Just in time for that season of Dallas where Bobby's death was all a dream.
There is definitely a third party involved at this point. When Kara experienced visions of her mother (or actually was present with her depending on interpretation), she at first assumed the Cylon Leoben(sp?) was responsible, yet she realized just before her "death" that he was not a Cylon, and he admitted to her that he was not.
I believe the story will evolve to reveal that their entire history , both human and Cylon, is cyclical in nature, and that what is happening now has happened before, and a return to Earth will signal the beginning of another cycle.
Why those 4 particular characters have been revealed to be Cyclons I can't say... I believe that they are not truly Cylons, yet someone is trying to contact them for reasons as yet unknown. If they were Cylons... even a "different" type... then that would be poor writing indeed. Too many flaws in their individual storylines to make it truly believable. I believe that just as they previously encountered a probe constucted by humans that was deadly to Cylons, the music originates from another probe, far more advanced than what we have now of course, that contains a history of our race, to include our culture, and thus our music, hence the song. It may be that the song is a tie-in to our reality and culture, signifying our presence, the mysterious third party" in this drama, and in this time we are far more advanced than the other 12 colonies... meaning that when they arrive on Earth they are doing so at a time far, far in our future. I believe that Kara was shown the past and how the colonies came to be, how the Cylons came to be, and how it has happened before... and how the fleet is simply part of the ongoing equation... therefore her comment that everything is going to be OK.
I will add one thing though... everyone knows that when you paint a floor, you start at the point farthest from the door, so when you're done... you have a place to exit. It just may be that the writers have forgotten this. Let's just hope that we don't see an episode where the main characters win a trip to Hawaii and they all go on a road trip together. Please BSG powers that be... write to be right, write to be tight. Please don't jump the shark with this one...
I believe the story will evolve to reveal that their entire history , both human and Cylon, is cyclical in nature, and that what is happening now has happened before, and a return to Earth will signal the beginning of another cycle.
Why those 4 particular characters have been revealed to be Cyclons I can't say... I believe that they are not truly Cylons, yet someone is trying to contact them for reasons as yet unknown. If they were Cylons... even a "different" type... then that would be poor writing indeed. Too many flaws in their individual storylines to make it truly believable. I believe that just as they previously encountered a probe constucted by humans that was deadly to Cylons, the music originates from another probe, far more advanced than what we have now of course, that contains a history of our race, to include our culture, and thus our music, hence the song. It may be that the song is a tie-in to our reality and culture, signifying our presence, the mysterious third party" in this drama, and in this time we are far more advanced than the other 12 colonies... meaning that when they arrive on Earth they are doing so at a time far, far in our future. I believe that Kara was shown the past and how the colonies came to be, how the Cylons came to be, and how it has happened before... and how the fleet is simply part of the ongoing equation... therefore her comment that everything is going to be OK.
I will add one thing though... everyone knows that when you paint a floor, you start at the point farthest from the door, so when you're done... you have a place to exit. It just may be that the writers have forgotten this. Let's just hope that we don't see an episode where the main characters win a trip to Hawaii and they all go on a road trip together. Please BSG powers that be... write to be right, write to be tight. Please don't jump the shark with this one...
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posted by : 3/28/2007 10:41 AM
: 3/28/2007 10:41 AM
Anon, look at the link Saf provided. Moore himself said they are Cylons. It's poor writing. Let's face it, the Cylons don't have a plan because Moore doesn't have a plan. There is no story arc. There is no plan. This is Moore et al making it up as they go along. He's either too stupid or too arrogant to keep it secret. I'm not a Moore hater. I thought he took ST:TNG and really improved it. Here though, the hype seems to have gone to his head.
This fly by the seat writing is why all of the fanboy speculation is just stupid.
This fly by the seat writing is why all of the fanboy speculation is just stupid.
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posted by : 3/28/2007 11:41 AM
: 3/28/2007 11:41 AM
Want to say Goodby to a lousy third season. At least half of this seasons episodes were a total waste of time. They were not SF nor did they help to develop the story. I feel as though the BSG producers have no really good ideas and are trying to milk this show as long as they can. After all once they find earth that is about the end of BSG. I'll give this show a chance next season but if they are any more soap opera shows as they had this year, I will walk away from this series. Too bad as they had a good plot to work.
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posted by : 3/28/2007 5:45 PM
: 3/28/2007 5:45 PM
Terrahawk and others, I think you're being a bit defeatist here. I am very unimpressed that Moore has only recently decided that these four are Cylons, but the situation is not completely unsalvageable. Let me play the devil's advocate for a bit.
Our knowledge of the four new Cylons only really goes back 25-30 years. Yes, Tigh supposedly fought in the first Cylon war, but remember that the only other veteran of that war that we know of, Admiral Adama, only met Tigh some time afterwards when they were both civilians again.
I would find the notion of humanoid Cylons during the Cylon War a little hard to take, going as it does against established stories. But I don't remember Moore ever saying that all humanoid Cylons had only been placed a few years before the attacks. They're machines: a time scale is not really an issue, and anytime after the war is a possible time for humanoid Cylon infiltration.
Why the Final Five would infiltrate the Colonials so much earlier than the Genocidal Seven I don't know. But as they do have seriously different motives, the time lapse doesn't seem too incredible.
Now, this 25-30 year theory fits nicely with the ages of three of the four, but it does require that Tigh's war memories and past history are fabricated. It would be interesting to see Moore and co. justify this.
Our knowledge of the four new Cylons only really goes back 25-30 years. Yes, Tigh supposedly fought in the first Cylon war, but remember that the only other veteran of that war that we know of, Admiral Adama, only met Tigh some time afterwards when they were both civilians again.
I would find the notion of humanoid Cylons during the Cylon War a little hard to take, going as it does against established stories. But I don't remember Moore ever saying that all humanoid Cylons had only been placed a few years before the attacks. They're machines: a time scale is not really an issue, and anytime after the war is a possible time for humanoid Cylon infiltration.
Why the Final Five would infiltrate the Colonials so much earlier than the Genocidal Seven I don't know. But as they do have seriously different motives, the time lapse doesn't seem too incredible.
Now, this 25-30 year theory fits nicely with the ages of three of the four, but it does require that Tigh's war memories and past history are fabricated. It would be interesting to see Moore and co. justify this.
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posted by : 3/28/2007 11:43 PM
: 3/28/2007 11:43 PM
They keep saying this has happened before and will happen again - This repetition of the battle of the gods (cylons) 7 or 8 "bad ones" vs. 4 or 5 "good ones". If I consider it that way I don't get so bent out of shape. I am kind of nervous about what stage of development earth will be in when they get there. The music was o.k - I guess, but at the end when Lee took flight and I knew he was gonna see Kara, I wanted to savor that moment but instead I felt like I was transported into an episode of the Electric Company. Overall, I was very happy with the drama of the episode and look forward to next season quite a bit!
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posted by : 3/30/2007 12:00 AM
: 3/30/2007 12:00 AM
I'd have to go back and watch too much to think about this...but remember when Lucy Lawless sees one of the final 5? We know that she recognizes him/her because she says "I'm so sorry." Anyone want to take a stab at which one she could have known? Could she have known all of them?
PAC+
PAC+
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posted by : 3/30/2007 11:42 PM
: 3/30/2007 11:42 PM
It could have been the "spirit if Tigh" that she saw, her being sorry for the popped out eye, but I have heard it was Doral who did that job, of course she could feel bad about it anyway. She almost shot Anders on Caprica, so she might feel sorry for that. I expect ALL WILL BE EXPLAINED at some point next season though. I'm wondering how pissed Cally is going to be when she finds out she is married to a cylon and her baby is half cylon.
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posted by : 3/31/2007 12:01 AM
: 3/31/2007 12:01 AM
i think that the fifth cylon is the president because she shared that "dream" with Sharon Agathon(cylon), Caprica-Six(cylon) and Hera(Human-Cylon Hyprid) and then the President Laura Roslin
So as far as i'm concerned she's a cylon!
So as far as i'm concerned she's a cylon!
With this new cliffhanger about Chief Tyrol, Col. Tigh, Samuel Anders, and Tory (president's aide). Although there is alot to think about concerning this cylon revelation the first two thing's that came to my mind are.
1. Who's the Fith?
I think it's the president read post above.
2. There is a new Human-Cylon Hybrid and that would be Galen Tyrol and Kally Tyrol's Son Nicholas is the second hybrid.
1. Who's the Fith?
I think it's the president read post above.
2. There is a new Human-Cylon Hybrid and that would be Galen Tyrol and Kally Tyrol's Son Nicholas is the second hybrid.
I love this show just like everyone here.
About earth in the final shot... I don't think the absence of lights means anything. Afterall, the sun rises in the east and sets in the west. The scene would put New York at about 9... and Calif at dawn.
What I think is telling... there are no glaciers in the scene representing an ice age or anything. Also, I don't know if it's intentional or not, but the great lakes are not viewable from what I can tell.
I have TiVo and HD... but not TiVo HD... and I am looking at the last scene frozen as I write this.
About earth in the final shot... I don't think the absence of lights means anything. Afterall, the sun rises in the east and sets in the west. The scene would put New York at about 9... and Calif at dawn.
What I think is telling... there are no glaciers in the scene representing an ice age or anything. Also, I don't know if it's intentional or not, but the great lakes are not viewable from what I can tell.
I have TiVo and HD... but not TiVo HD... and I am looking at the last scene frozen as I write this.
Yes, I noticed that too. Does anyone know what other man made clues might be visible from space? - I think The Great Wall of China is, but what other clues might there be?
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posted by : 4/08/2007 10:54 AM
: 4/08/2007 10:54 AM
I just got done watching the eps. again and i noticed 2 things. 1 was that Sam stated that the songs was like something from childhood, so it maybe that the 4 are cylons, but not the way that we would think of them. Perhaps they're cylons because of some genetics or cybergenetic testing i dont really know. Also it's very difficult to see earth at the end, but if you look to Canada and even in the north eastern usa its very barren and looks like its cover in snow. Just thought i point that out.
AJM
AJM
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posted by : 5/25/2007 9:40 PM
: 5/25/2007 9:40 PM
QUOTE BY SAF: 3) The ending with Starbuck, the pan to Earth, and All Along the Watchtower. This — seeing the Colonials rock out to Hendrix — this was pretty unexpected. I really, really hope that when they get to Earth (which they must soon) it is not in anything approaching our time period. The results of that would be — shark-jumping doesn't even begin to capture it. Let it be a ruined and devastated planet, let it be the Cylon homeworld, let it be the Planet of the Apes even, but not that.
Damn that captures my feelings exactly! Truly those are words of wisdom.
Damn that captures my feelings exactly! Truly those are words of wisdom.
What do you think about creating a Battlestar Galactica's ring of blogs?
It coulb be just linking each other or creating a webring.
If you have any comments, or suggests just let me know on my BSG's blog:
http://estrelladecombate.blogspot.com
Post a Comment
It coulb be just linking each other or creating a webring.
If you have any comments, or suggests just let me know on my BSG's blog:
http://estrelladecombate.blogspot.com