Saturday, December 09, 2006
The Passage
I couldn't even figure out what was going on in this episode until I read the official synopsis. So that was supposed to be a "star cluster"? And why couldn't they just travel around it?
The original Battlestar Galactica was criticized for not making any scientific sense, and the new series is now drifting into that territory (assuming it didn't drift there from the very beginning with the idea of Cylons who are so much like humans that not even advanced medical science can't tell them apart). Considering the vast distances of space that the fleet routinely travels, I don't see how a "star cluster" could be so vast that they couldn't just travel around it, yet so dense with stars that jumping into the middle of it means death from radiation after only a few minutes.
This reminded me very much of two similarly themed episodes from the original series. In "Lost Planet of the Gods," Starbuck and Apollo discovered an unnavigable possibly endless void, but they figured out how to get through it and found the planet Kobol in thd middle. And in the episode "Gun on Ice Planet Zero," the fleet had to fly past a planet with a huge gun on it. Why couldn't they just fly out of range of the gun? Or wait until the gun was on the far side of the planet? While normally I like it when they pay homage to the old series, in this case they're paying homage to the very worst plot points of the original series.
What's the deal with the piano music everytime we're in the Cylon base ship? The Cylons are supposed the be the enemy, so they should be playing ominous enemy music and not dreamy piano music. The piano music is supposed to be telling us that the Cylons aren't really any worse than the humans.(Yes, the annoying fanboi commenters will say that I just don't appreciate the "subtleties." But I don't see any subtleties here, just a sledgehammer.)
Whan Starbuck tells Kat that she "lied her way into the company of good people," I couldn't believe that Starbuck could say that with a straight face. Starbuck, who likes to beat people up, especially her lovers, and who wanted to execute Gaeta in a secret Star Chamber tribunal, considers herself "good people"? But somehow, I don't think the writers actually saw the irony.
In conclusion, another lousy season three episode.
Comments:
What no 'these people are traitors aiding al Queda with their seditious season three' madness other than a bit of a moan about the Cylon sonata?
I rather like it, the whole Baltar on the baseship thing is one of the best and most intriguing aspects of this season and having some bombastic 'ominous' theme tune for the cylons would be hideously cheesy. I'm not saying there's no place for such devices, they work splendidly in simple morality tales like Star Wars but whether you like it or not this BSG is NOT a simple morality tale.
Anyhoo...an excellent episode because Kat was a dreadful, annoying character and I'm glad they've killed her off.
I rather like it, the whole Baltar on the baseship thing is one of the best and most intriguing aspects of this season and having some bombastic 'ominous' theme tune for the cylons would be hideously cheesy. I'm not saying there's no place for such devices, they work splendidly in simple morality tales like Star Wars but whether you like it or not this BSG is NOT a simple morality tale.
Anyhoo...an excellent episode because Kat was a dreadful, annoying character and I'm glad they've killed her off.
#
posted by 
: 12/09/2006 11:57 PM
: 12/09/2006 11:57 PM
No, I won't tell you you're missing subtleties - I've long since given up that fight. Instead, I'll just point out that A) you apparently can't understand utterly basic plot mechanics and astronomy, and B) you're a hypocrite.
Let's start with A first. They explicitly stated that they were seven to ten days away from starvation, so they had a limited amount of time to get where they were going. And since star clusters like this one (yes, they're real) are both huge (~100 light years in diameter) and crammed full of stars (hundreds of thousands) it's entirely plausible that the cluster would take too long to go around, and that it would be burning with plasma and radioactivity.
Turning to point B, it's worth looking at this episode in terms of what this blog has been bitching about all season: that the humans are horrible people, unworthy of survival. But instead of pointing out the great courage and sacrifice the pilots showed in the face of terrible adversity, (let's see Dirk Benedict deal with radiation poisoning!) we have a complaint that the background music on the Cylon base ship isn't "evil-sounding" enough.
...Riiiiight...
Insofar as any more evidence is needed, I submit to you that this is proof positive that the guy who writes this blog is utterly, totally biased: he's completely made his mind up that this show is bad, and now everything that happens gets twisted one way or another to fit that hypothesis. Fortunately, dismantling his horribly clunky arguments is nearly as much fun as watching BSG itself, so I look forward to his future slams on the show.
Let's start with A first. They explicitly stated that they were seven to ten days away from starvation, so they had a limited amount of time to get where they were going. And since star clusters like this one (yes, they're real) are both huge (~100 light years in diameter) and crammed full of stars (hundreds of thousands) it's entirely plausible that the cluster would take too long to go around, and that it would be burning with plasma and radioactivity.
Turning to point B, it's worth looking at this episode in terms of what this blog has been bitching about all season: that the humans are horrible people, unworthy of survival. But instead of pointing out the great courage and sacrifice the pilots showed in the face of terrible adversity, (let's see Dirk Benedict deal with radiation poisoning!) we have a complaint that the background music on the Cylon base ship isn't "evil-sounding" enough.
...Riiiiight...
Insofar as any more evidence is needed, I submit to you that this is proof positive that the guy who writes this blog is utterly, totally biased: he's completely made his mind up that this show is bad, and now everything that happens gets twisted one way or another to fit that hypothesis. Fortunately, dismantling his horribly clunky arguments is nearly as much fun as watching BSG itself, so I look forward to his future slams on the show.
#
posted by : 12/10/2006 2:00 AM
: 12/10/2006 2:00 AM
Let's start with A first.
Yes, let's start there. A few hundred light years should be nothing to jump. Let's do some math, shall we.
Assume the cluster is 100 light years in diameter and that the fleet is the maximum distance away from the planet (i.e. directly opposite each other on the circle).
The circumference (how far you would have to travel to go completely around the circle) is 314 light years. That makes the distance you need to travel 157 light years.
Now, we know a jump can cover at least half of the 100 light year diameter. So, let's say a jump can cover 50 light years.
That means we can bypass the cluster and reach our destination in a little over 3 jumps.
We know that the fleet can jump approximately every 30 minutes in an emergency.
Therefore, they could have resolved this problem in about 1 1/2 hours. This means it is not plausible for the cluster to be too large to go around. It doesn't work regardless of how large or small you make the cluster because by default you can move half way across in one jump. Geometry is our friend.
Turning to point B
Yes and no. Yes, they were heroic for leading the fleet through a needless, dangerous passage. No, because Starbuck again acts like a total jerk. Why? You're starving and you're worried about who Kat is talking to? When did Starbuck have time to confront Kat? They're trying to get the fleet through as quickly as possible. She's a good pilot and you're worried about what she did in the past? The whole thing was rushed and stupid.
Fortunately, dismantling his horribly clunky arguments is nearly as much fun...
Actually, dismantling your claims is about the only fun now.
On a more salient point, humanity is doomed at the rate they keep bumping people off.
Yes, let's start there. A few hundred light years should be nothing to jump. Let's do some math, shall we.
Assume the cluster is 100 light years in diameter and that the fleet is the maximum distance away from the planet (i.e. directly opposite each other on the circle).
The circumference (how far you would have to travel to go completely around the circle) is 314 light years. That makes the distance you need to travel 157 light years.
Now, we know a jump can cover at least half of the 100 light year diameter. So, let's say a jump can cover 50 light years.
That means we can bypass the cluster and reach our destination in a little over 3 jumps.
We know that the fleet can jump approximately every 30 minutes in an emergency.
Therefore, they could have resolved this problem in about 1 1/2 hours. This means it is not plausible for the cluster to be too large to go around. It doesn't work regardless of how large or small you make the cluster because by default you can move half way across in one jump. Geometry is our friend.
Turning to point B
Yes and no. Yes, they were heroic for leading the fleet through a needless, dangerous passage. No, because Starbuck again acts like a total jerk. Why? You're starving and you're worried about who Kat is talking to? When did Starbuck have time to confront Kat? They're trying to get the fleet through as quickly as possible. She's a good pilot and you're worried about what she did in the past? The whole thing was rushed and stupid.
Fortunately, dismantling his horribly clunky arguments is nearly as much fun...
Actually, dismantling your claims is about the only fun now.
On a more salient point, humanity is doomed at the rate they keep bumping people off.
#
posted by : 12/10/2006 9:20 AM
: 12/10/2006 9:20 AM
Just reading the comments and counter-comments about science (star clusters, travel times etc) - have you all forgotten that this is a show that appears to have technology that allows the humans and cylons to create gravitational fields based on mass that does not exist, rather than using rotational means? Also, they have FTL travel - superluminal travel that seems to create no g-forces, so they also have technology allowing them to suspend or circumvent Newton's laws.
It's pointless arguing about the show's pseudo-science. Complaints about bad plot holes however I get - and I have noticed them creeping in this season too. Especially in 'A Measure of Salvation' - Helo needs to sort his priorities out or take a walk out an airlock.
It's pointless arguing about the show's pseudo-science. Complaints about bad plot holes however I get - and I have noticed them creeping in this season too. Especially in 'A Measure of Salvation' - Helo needs to sort his priorities out or take a walk out an airlock.
#
posted by : 12/10/2006 10:23 AM
: 12/10/2006 10:23 AM
Hmmm.
Not a great episode, but an okay one. At this point, I'll take what I can get. Perhaps this indicates the creative path is moving upward again.
I assumed the planet was in the middle of the star cluster (in the eye of the storm, so to speak) but I may be wrong.
But - it is true, that at this rate - the number of ships lost, the people dying - humanity is doomed.
Not a great episode, but an okay one. At this point, I'll take what I can get. Perhaps this indicates the creative path is moving upward again.
I assumed the planet was in the middle of the star cluster (in the eye of the storm, so to speak) but I may be wrong.
But - it is true, that at this rate - the number of ships lost, the people dying - humanity is doomed.
yeh, not an amazing ep, but still a good one. yr not gonna get amazing eps when they focus mainly on peripheral characters.
i didnt get all the tech mumbo jumbo, but i usually ignore that stuff. this show's about people not star clusters or jump engines.
ep review/recap right here:
http://goldteethblog.blogspot.com/search/label/Battlestar%20Galactica
i didnt get all the tech mumbo jumbo, but i usually ignore that stuff. this show's about people not star clusters or jump engines.
ep review/recap right here:
http://goldteethblog.blogspot.com/search/label/Battlestar%20Galactica
A few hundred light years should be nothing to jump. Let's do some math, shall we. Assume the cluster is 100 light years in diameter and that the fleet is the maximum distance away from the planet (i.e. directly opposite each other on the circle). The circumference (how far you would have to travel to go completely around the circle) is 314 light years. That makes the distance you need to travel 157 light years. Now, we know a jump can cover at least half of the 100 light year diameter. So, let's say a jump can cover 50 light years. That means we can bypass the cluster and reach our destination in a little over 3 jumps.
No. You have no basis for assuming that the fleet can jump 50 ly at a time. Stellar clusters aren't perfectly spherical and homogenous - it could be that the core, at least, is more disc-shaped, with (relatively) navigable passage in the middle that gets jumped through but a far larger circumference. It could also be the case that the planet is in a relatively calm part of the cluster, as Ivan pointed out. Either way, the distance they're jumping could be a small fraction of the total diameter of the cluster.
We know that the fleet can jump approximately every 30 minutes in an emergency. Therefore, they could have resolved this problem in about 1 1/2 hours.
No, this doesn't follow either. Yes, we've seen the fleet jump every 33 minutes in an emergency, but there's no mention of how long they were jumping each time. It's entirely reasonable to suggest that the longer they jump, the longer is needed beforehand to make the calculations. For all we know, for the entire five days in "33" they moved no more than a single light year, because each quick jump only took them just out of range of the Cylons.
This means it is not plausible for the cluster to be too large to go around. It doesn't work regardless of how large or small you make the cluster because by default you can move half way across in one jump. Geometry is our friend.
No, overly simplistic assumptions are your friend... I'm not to fond of 'em, personally.
Yes and no. Yes, they were heroic for leading the fleet through a needless, dangerous passage. No, because Starbuck again acts like a total jerk. Why? You're starving and you're worried about who Kat is talking to? When did Starbuck have time to confront Kat? They're trying to get the fleet through as quickly as possible. She's a good pilot and you're worried about what she did in the past? The whole thing was rushed and stupid.
No, the passage wasn't needless. And yes, Starbuck acts like a total jerk... have you not been watching the show up to this point? That's what Starbuck does. Her personal behavior (lousy) is constantly at odds with her professional behavior (great). Does it make sense that she'd slam Kat for hiding her identity? Maybe yes, maybe no (they sure as hell take faking details about your life seriously in the military and intelligence worlds, and that's in peacetime) but it doesn't matter - given that the pilots were all starving, nauseous, and running on way too little sleep, it's not surprising that she'd at irrationally. And as to when she had time to do this, it pretty clearly takes time to onload and offload passengers and repair the raptors.
Actually, dismantling your claims is about the only fun now.
It's a shame you waste your own time watching something that you so clearly despise. Me, I get the fun of watching the show and the fun of rhetorically ripping apart the two of you. Strange how that works, huh, hawk?
No. You have no basis for assuming that the fleet can jump 50 ly at a time. Stellar clusters aren't perfectly spherical and homogenous - it could be that the core, at least, is more disc-shaped, with (relatively) navigable passage in the middle that gets jumped through but a far larger circumference. It could also be the case that the planet is in a relatively calm part of the cluster, as Ivan pointed out. Either way, the distance they're jumping could be a small fraction of the total diameter of the cluster.
We know that the fleet can jump approximately every 30 minutes in an emergency. Therefore, they could have resolved this problem in about 1 1/2 hours.
No, this doesn't follow either. Yes, we've seen the fleet jump every 33 minutes in an emergency, but there's no mention of how long they were jumping each time. It's entirely reasonable to suggest that the longer they jump, the longer is needed beforehand to make the calculations. For all we know, for the entire five days in "33" they moved no more than a single light year, because each quick jump only took them just out of range of the Cylons.
This means it is not plausible for the cluster to be too large to go around. It doesn't work regardless of how large or small you make the cluster because by default you can move half way across in one jump. Geometry is our friend.
No, overly simplistic assumptions are your friend... I'm not to fond of 'em, personally.
Yes and no. Yes, they were heroic for leading the fleet through a needless, dangerous passage. No, because Starbuck again acts like a total jerk. Why? You're starving and you're worried about who Kat is talking to? When did Starbuck have time to confront Kat? They're trying to get the fleet through as quickly as possible. She's a good pilot and you're worried about what she did in the past? The whole thing was rushed and stupid.
No, the passage wasn't needless. And yes, Starbuck acts like a total jerk... have you not been watching the show up to this point? That's what Starbuck does. Her personal behavior (lousy) is constantly at odds with her professional behavior (great). Does it make sense that she'd slam Kat for hiding her identity? Maybe yes, maybe no (they sure as hell take faking details about your life seriously in the military and intelligence worlds, and that's in peacetime) but it doesn't matter - given that the pilots were all starving, nauseous, and running on way too little sleep, it's not surprising that she'd at irrationally. And as to when she had time to do this, it pretty clearly takes time to onload and offload passengers and repair the raptors.
Actually, dismantling your claims is about the only fun now.
It's a shame you waste your own time watching something that you so clearly despise. Me, I get the fun of watching the show and the fun of rhetorically ripping apart the two of you. Strange how that works, huh, hawk?
#
posted by : 12/10/2006 5:05 PM
: 12/10/2006 5:05 PM
You're an idiot. If you don't like the series don't watch it. I'm still amazed you can prefer the shitty one-dimensional original over this but whatever, you're an asshole.
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posted by : 12/11/2006 4:45 AM
: 12/11/2006 4:45 AM
Stellar clusters aren't perfectly spherical and homogenous - it could be that the core, at least, is more disc-shaped, with (relatively) navigable passage in the middle that gets jumped through but a far larger circumference.
Reading through these comments I hadn't considered the point that if you can go through the cluster, you could go round just as easy (assuming it was spherical). However, the post above totally cleared my mind as to any "inaccuracies".
Lets assume the cluster to be disc-shaped, and assume (for the sake of easy maths) it is 1000 light years in diameter, but only 10 light years in depth, and also assume that the fleet approaches the cluster perpendicular to its diameter and perfectly in the center (simplifications I know, but it makes my argument easier!), and that they want to be in exactly the same point but on the other side of the cluster. By going round the cluster, the total journey length would be just over 1000 light years (500 to get to the edge, and 500 to get to the center on the opposite side). But by going through the cluster, the total jounrney is only 10 light years. So it becomes totally plausible, logical and sensible to attempt to go through the cluster when time is of the essence.
Turning to point B, it's worth looking at this episode in terms of what this blog has been bitching about all season: that the humans are horrible people, unworthy of survival. But instead of pointing out the great courage and sacrifice the pilots showed in the face of terrible adversity, (let's see Dirk Benedict deal with radiation poisoning!) we have a complaint that the background music on the Cylon base ship isn't "evil-sounding" enough.
Hate to say it, but I also agree with the above point - we have an episode that shows that humans are worthy of surviving, and shows people doing good things, yet somehow you fail to mention this when you have spent the entire season thus far commenting on how "humans are horrible people, unworthy of survival". Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and one of the reasons I read this blog is because of it's general anti-BSG theme - its refreshing to see someone not praise everything BSG (which I myself do!), just to see the points made and the arguments (and I mean that in the debate sense of the word) that are formed. But it does seem as though the blog is leaning more and more towards a complete anti-BSG perspective, rather than the balanced, questioning stance is has taken so far.
Reading through these comments I hadn't considered the point that if you can go through the cluster, you could go round just as easy (assuming it was spherical). However, the post above totally cleared my mind as to any "inaccuracies".
Lets assume the cluster to be disc-shaped, and assume (for the sake of easy maths) it is 1000 light years in diameter, but only 10 light years in depth, and also assume that the fleet approaches the cluster perpendicular to its diameter and perfectly in the center (simplifications I know, but it makes my argument easier!), and that they want to be in exactly the same point but on the other side of the cluster. By going round the cluster, the total journey length would be just over 1000 light years (500 to get to the edge, and 500 to get to the center on the opposite side). But by going through the cluster, the total jounrney is only 10 light years. So it becomes totally plausible, logical and sensible to attempt to go through the cluster when time is of the essence.
Turning to point B, it's worth looking at this episode in terms of what this blog has been bitching about all season: that the humans are horrible people, unworthy of survival. But instead of pointing out the great courage and sacrifice the pilots showed in the face of terrible adversity, (let's see Dirk Benedict deal with radiation poisoning!) we have a complaint that the background music on the Cylon base ship isn't "evil-sounding" enough.
Hate to say it, but I also agree with the above point - we have an episode that shows that humans are worthy of surviving, and shows people doing good things, yet somehow you fail to mention this when you have spent the entire season thus far commenting on how "humans are horrible people, unworthy of survival". Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and one of the reasons I read this blog is because of it's general anti-BSG theme - its refreshing to see someone not praise everything BSG (which I myself do!), just to see the points made and the arguments (and I mean that in the debate sense of the word) that are formed. But it does seem as though the blog is leaning more and more towards a complete anti-BSG perspective, rather than the balanced, questioning stance is has taken so far.
#
posted by : 12/11/2006 5:17 AM
: 12/11/2006 5:17 AM
It could also be the case that the planet is in a relatively calm part of the cluster, as Ivan pointed out.
The planet isn't in the cluster, it is on the other side. This is made clear by the discussion of the option of going around the cluster.
Stellar clusters aren't perfectly spherical and homogenous - it could be that the core, at least, is more disc-shaped, with (relatively) navigable passage in the middle that gets jumped through but a far larger circumference.
There are two types of star clusters, globular and open.
Globular clusters are roughly spherical groups of anything between 10,000 and several million stars in a region about 10 to 30 light years across.
Open clusters usually contain up to a few hundred members, within a region up to about 30 light years across.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_cluster
And actually, the core of a globular cluster will have more stars than the edges due to gravity. However, let's assume a "cluster" of 100LY in length and 10LY in depth. The planet is directly opposite 10LY away and 110LY by going around. Making a 1LY jump every hour will have you there in under 5 days. Anon's 1,000LY cluster is too big for a reasonable test, so I picked 100 for the size of a very large cluster.
It's entirely reasonable to suggest that the longer they jump, the longer is needed beforehand to make the calculations. For all we know, for the entire five days in "33" they moved no more than a single light year, because each quick jump only took them just out of range of the Cylons.
That seems unlikely since they were making a second jump in the current episode after only minutes. By your logic they are making some huge leap which would have them almost out of the cluster and then some sub-light year jump. It seems doubtful that the radiation would be as intense on the edges of the cluster which is where they would be.
It's a shame you waste your own time watching something that you so clearly despise. Me, I get the fun of watching the show and the fun of rhetorically ripping apart the two of you. Strange how that works, huh, hawk?
Wow, I'm humbled by your high school psychology. It's about as good as your math and logic.
The planet isn't in the cluster, it is on the other side. This is made clear by the discussion of the option of going around the cluster.
Stellar clusters aren't perfectly spherical and homogenous - it could be that the core, at least, is more disc-shaped, with (relatively) navigable passage in the middle that gets jumped through but a far larger circumference.
There are two types of star clusters, globular and open.
Globular clusters are roughly spherical groups of anything between 10,000 and several million stars in a region about 10 to 30 light years across.
Open clusters usually contain up to a few hundred members, within a region up to about 30 light years across.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_cluster
And actually, the core of a globular cluster will have more stars than the edges due to gravity. However, let's assume a "cluster" of 100LY in length and 10LY in depth. The planet is directly opposite 10LY away and 110LY by going around. Making a 1LY jump every hour will have you there in under 5 days. Anon's 1,000LY cluster is too big for a reasonable test, so I picked 100 for the size of a very large cluster.
It's entirely reasonable to suggest that the longer they jump, the longer is needed beforehand to make the calculations. For all we know, for the entire five days in "33" they moved no more than a single light year, because each quick jump only took them just out of range of the Cylons.
That seems unlikely since they were making a second jump in the current episode after only minutes. By your logic they are making some huge leap which would have them almost out of the cluster and then some sub-light year jump. It seems doubtful that the radiation would be as intense on the edges of the cluster which is where they would be.
It's a shame you waste your own time watching something that you so clearly despise. Me, I get the fun of watching the show and the fun of rhetorically ripping apart the two of you. Strange how that works, huh, hawk?
Wow, I'm humbled by your high school psychology. It's about as good as your math and logic.
#
posted by : 12/11/2006 7:36 AM
: 12/11/2006 7:36 AM
I dont care about the math behind the show because we're assuming to much. We dont know how big the cluster is and we dont know the ships capbilities. So thats out the window secondly this episode at least brought back the whole perpous for the show, finding Earth. It did show that humanity is worthy of survival because Kat, no matter how flawed she was, saved that ship. And if you want to place this show with a current event, like I know you done before, this episode smiles a lot like that KGB agent that was poisdon in London.
Lets examine a few parallels one the agent lived a double life and so did Kat and two they both died horribly because of radiation.
Lets examine a few parallels one the agent lived a double life and so did Kat and two they both died horribly because of radiation.
Terrahawk-
Let's just take a moment to recap here: you started with the asseration that of course they could circumvent the whole thing in a mere hour and a half; now that figure's up to four and a half days using some speeds that seem kinda suspect to me (at 1ly/hour, they could cross the whole galaxy from one end to the other in a decade).
Now, we could probably go back and forth on this for a while longer - I'm sure you'll point out that 1ly/hr is reasonable given that they seemed able to go through the cluster (assumed 10ly deep) in about half a day. In turn I can point out that such a speed probably isn't sustainable for more than a day or so at a time, given that we know from "33" that people apparently can't sleep through jumps. At the end of the day this is all conjecture anyway, since we have no hard numbers on how long/fast the fleet can jump, the precise nature of the cluster, etc. But I think it's worth pointing out that even you're agreeing that circumventing the cluster could take substantially longer than going through it, and that clusters are quite real - two points that the original poster apparently couldn't get his head around.
As to whether the show's entirely realistic, of course not: even overlooking the massive hand-waving required to deal with FTL travel in the first place, I can think of a ton of plot holes that the ep had. For example, how would Athena even know there was a planet with food on the other side of the cluster in the first place, if the damn thing's so hard to get through? But every work of fiction - every work - has plot holes, and requires some degree of suspension of disbelief. The new BSG is at least on par with the rest of televised SF in that regard, and a damn sight better than most. In the meantime, if you're gonna slam the show for not being believable, at least slam it for the right mistakes.
Wow, I'm humbled by your high school psychology. It's about as good as your math and logic.
Funny, you ended up agreeing with my logic more than not. As for "high school psychology", calling my analysis names doesn't disprove it. It's really pretty simple - you seem to hate the show, and say it only gives you pleasure when you come here and argue with me about it. I very much enjoy the show and coming here to argue with you about it. So which of us is getting more out of the whole deal at the end of the day, hawk?
Let's just take a moment to recap here: you started with the asseration that of course they could circumvent the whole thing in a mere hour and a half; now that figure's up to four and a half days using some speeds that seem kinda suspect to me (at 1ly/hour, they could cross the whole galaxy from one end to the other in a decade).
Now, we could probably go back and forth on this for a while longer - I'm sure you'll point out that 1ly/hr is reasonable given that they seemed able to go through the cluster (assumed 10ly deep) in about half a day. In turn I can point out that such a speed probably isn't sustainable for more than a day or so at a time, given that we know from "33" that people apparently can't sleep through jumps. At the end of the day this is all conjecture anyway, since we have no hard numbers on how long/fast the fleet can jump, the precise nature of the cluster, etc. But I think it's worth pointing out that even you're agreeing that circumventing the cluster could take substantially longer than going through it, and that clusters are quite real - two points that the original poster apparently couldn't get his head around.
As to whether the show's entirely realistic, of course not: even overlooking the massive hand-waving required to deal with FTL travel in the first place, I can think of a ton of plot holes that the ep had. For example, how would Athena even know there was a planet with food on the other side of the cluster in the first place, if the damn thing's so hard to get through? But every work of fiction - every work - has plot holes, and requires some degree of suspension of disbelief. The new BSG is at least on par with the rest of televised SF in that regard, and a damn sight better than most. In the meantime, if you're gonna slam the show for not being believable, at least slam it for the right mistakes.
Wow, I'm humbled by your high school psychology. It's about as good as your math and logic.
Funny, you ended up agreeing with my logic more than not. As for "high school psychology", calling my analysis names doesn't disprove it. It's really pretty simple - you seem to hate the show, and say it only gives you pleasure when you come here and argue with me about it. I very much enjoy the show and coming here to argue with you about it. So which of us is getting more out of the whole deal at the end of the day, hawk?
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posted by : 12/12/2006 2:12 AM
: 12/12/2006 2:12 AM
Let's assume that they had to go on the other side of the cluster. let's assume that the 'pro' side is right. what I don't get is: Star clusters are bright, and BIG. I mean, we can see Pleiades from what, one hundred or thousand LY away? so, why they didn't plan a trajectory which would skim around it since the very beginning? It's not like the cluster appeared suddenly in the middle of nowhere.
Frankly, I loved the first series, endured some crap bits of the second one, but I am now giving up on BSG 'cause I just can see no good point in watching it. I love SF, but frankly, I find Desperate Housewives more entertaining.
Frankly, I loved the first series, endured some crap bits of the second one, but I am now giving up on BSG 'cause I just can see no good point in watching it. I love SF, but frankly, I find Desperate Housewives more entertaining.
Frankly if you guys want to waste your time argueing whether the show is believable or not go ahead. Honestly no of the show is believable, its just a show watch it and shut up. If dont like it dont watch it and dont blog about it. I sick of you guys bashing the show. Ok the first few episodes of this season were shaky, but this one was actually good dont rip it apart. Just enjoy it because there's no real Galactica, Cylons, or Starbuck. Ok its just a show lets discuss the show not the theories behind it.
Frankly if you guys want to waste your time argueing whether the show is believable or not go ahead. Honestly no of the show is believable, its just a show watch it and shut up. If dont like it dont watch it and dont blog about it. I sick of you guys bashing the show. Ok the first few episodes of this season were shaky, but this one was actually good dont rip it apart. Just enjoy it because there's no real Galactica, Cylons, or Starbuck. Ok its just a show lets discuss the show not the theories behind it.
Star clusters are bright, and BIG. I mean, we can see Pleiades from what, one hundred or thousand LY away? so, why they didn't plan a trajectory which would skim around it since the very beginning?
Perhaps they detected something near the cluster and hoped it was on the near side. Perhaps they didn't detect it until they were close to the cluster.
how would Athena even know there was a planet with food on the other side of the cluster in the first place, if the damn thing's so hard to get through?
Sometimes you can see things that are hard to get through. Moving and detecting have different constraints.
It seems doubtful that the radiation would be as intense on the edges of the cluster which is where they would be.
Why does it seem doubtful? Further in, the radiation may be even more intense.
The planet is directly opposite 10LY away and 110LY by going around. Making a 1LY jump every hour will have you there in under 5 days.
We don't know the limitations or capabilities of FTL travel or of the FTL computers. It may be that heading directly into a gravitational well is far simpler and / or allows for far faster travel than trying to skirt around it. Imagine yourself on rollerskates on very smooth "hilly" terrain (perhaps with the added constraint that you can't keep your eyes open while moving). It's not clear that the (relevant) units involved in FTL travel are anything like LY/H. Local gravitational fields and direction of travel may be overriding factors.
Perhaps they detected something near the cluster and hoped it was on the near side. Perhaps they didn't detect it until they were close to the cluster.
how would Athena even know there was a planet with food on the other side of the cluster in the first place, if the damn thing's so hard to get through?
Sometimes you can see things that are hard to get through. Moving and detecting have different constraints.
It seems doubtful that the radiation would be as intense on the edges of the cluster which is where they would be.
Why does it seem doubtful? Further in, the radiation may be even more intense.
The planet is directly opposite 10LY away and 110LY by going around. Making a 1LY jump every hour will have you there in under 5 days.
We don't know the limitations or capabilities of FTL travel or of the FTL computers. It may be that heading directly into a gravitational well is far simpler and / or allows for far faster travel than trying to skirt around it. Imagine yourself on rollerskates on very smooth "hilly" terrain (perhaps with the added constraint that you can't keep your eyes open while moving). It's not clear that the (relevant) units involved in FTL travel are anything like LY/H. Local gravitational fields and direction of travel may be overriding factors.
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posted by : 12/13/2006 7:12 AM
: 12/13/2006 7:12 AM
Ya know, Im kinda sick of all the over annalitical and critisisms of the show. You seem to wish the series would end.
I don't. Personally I find sitting down to a nice contriversial and groundbreaking show, that you never know how it will end up? Who will die? Who's doing what to whome?
Now sometimes I think the show gets a little too political and too liberal such as Roslyn giving the traitors a pass, But other than that, It's a Sci Fi adventure and if you don't like it, Then why do you keep watching?
The show has a terrific cast, Able to twist and turn scenarios from one week to the next. The writers are good, Not as great as the original Stargate SG1 writers but for SCI Fi it's good.
Personally I love the seduction of Baltar scenario and also the difficulty that Cylons have being like humans.
Chuck
I don't. Personally I find sitting down to a nice contriversial and groundbreaking show, that you never know how it will end up? Who will die? Who's doing what to whome?
Now sometimes I think the show gets a little too political and too liberal such as Roslyn giving the traitors a pass, But other than that, It's a Sci Fi adventure and if you don't like it, Then why do you keep watching?
The show has a terrific cast, Able to twist and turn scenarios from one week to the next. The writers are good, Not as great as the original Stargate SG1 writers but for SCI Fi it's good.
Personally I love the seduction of Baltar scenario and also the difficulty that Cylons have being like humans.
Chuck
Seeing that Baltar has already slept with two of the Cylon women, do you think he will attempt to put some wood on the Baseship cylon?
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posted by : 12/14/2006 3:07 PM
: 12/14/2006 3:07 PM
I am pretty much an outsider, i rarely participate in postings, but this is an exception.
WAKE UP! Why are there people always complaining about a show that is completely different from anything else? It's such a unique show, but why the complaining? Expect the unexpected is something everyone should take into account.
Furthermore, regardless of whether the owner if this site is biased or not, there is no need to insult him. He has a right to express an opinion. If you don't like it, then stop comming back! nobody is forcing you to read it but you!
PS. It's kinda sad that you go into the math behind the cluster too. Take the show at face value. If you don't like it, simply don;t watch it! Stop Complaining!
WAKE UP! Why are there people always complaining about a show that is completely different from anything else? It's such a unique show, but why the complaining? Expect the unexpected is something everyone should take into account.
Furthermore, regardless of whether the owner if this site is biased or not, there is no need to insult him. He has a right to express an opinion. If you don't like it, then stop comming back! nobody is forcing you to read it but you!
PS. It's kinda sad that you go into the math behind the cluster too. Take the show at face value. If you don't like it, simply don;t watch it! Stop Complaining!
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posted by : 12/16/2006 8:31 AM
: 12/16/2006 8:31 AM
The piano music is unquestionably creepy. Many movies, tv series, and video games use quiet but discordant music for their antagonists.
The Cylons are not the Empire from Star Wars. One would expect that their representation, including music, would be substantially different as well.
The Cylons are strongly religious. They're a hive, but also a republic. Their society grants them little self identity yet as individuals have a strong sense of self. They're machines, but they've chosen to take the form of another race of beings.
They're undoubtedly villians, but they're far too complex and unique to be represented as drooling monsters killing everything in sight. Character depth, even in villians, is what separates a good show from a great show.
The Cylons are not the Empire from Star Wars. One would expect that their representation, including music, would be substantially different as well.
The Cylons are strongly religious. They're a hive, but also a republic. Their society grants them little self identity yet as individuals have a strong sense of self. They're machines, but they've chosen to take the form of another race of beings.
They're undoubtedly villians, but they're far too complex and unique to be represented as drooling monsters killing everything in sight. Character depth, even in villians, is what separates a good show from a great show.
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posted by : 1/12/2007 3:52 PM
: 1/12/2007 3:52 PM
Mike, I have to say that I agree with you. Battlestar Galactica is a horrible, poorly done show. I really can't understand how such liberal claptrap stays on the air. And as far as the "star cluster" thing goes I have two things to say: One, stars cannot be grouped so close together as to irradiate the space between them to lethal levels. If they were that close together, their own conflicting gravity fields would cause the stars to tear each other apart and, unless they were all, somehow, orbiting a massive central body, the entie cluster would collapse in upon itself. Two, even if a star cluster were 100 or 200 light years in diameter, at the FTL speeds the human fleet would have to be traveling, they could go around it. The remark that starvation was only ten days away was illogical and nonsensical. In most cases, a human can go for as long as sixty days without food and still survive. Water, on the other hand, is a different matter. But, anyway, this is just one example of the utter lack of logic and sensible script writing that plagues this inept excuse for entertainment. As a parting shot, if BG were an actual military unit, that dispicable excuse for the "Starbuck" character would've been fragged long ago.
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posted by : 2/14/2007 2:00 AM
: 2/14/2007 2:00 AM