Sunday, November 19, 2006
Why season 3 sucks
The new Battlestar Galactica has turned into complete crap. Instead of a science fiction show about humans fleeing for their lives from evil robots, BSG has now turned into week after week of tortured plots which make no sense. Each episodes only purpose seems to be to make some leftist point about the United States' role in the world.
First of all, let's establish the fact that the humans represent the United States. The government of the humans is very similar to U.S. republican democracy, with a president, and a legislateive branch equally represented by each of the 12 colonies, kind of like the U.S. Senate. Yes, today we have fifty states represented in the Senate, but when the country started there were only 13 states, which is the exact same number as the 13 colonies of BSG if we include the lost colony of earth. All the little glimpses we get of the original Colonial government reminds of of the huge U.S. federal bureacracy but only bigger. The show is written by Americans for a primarily American audience, and the people in the show behave much like people living in 21st century America (at least they used to before season three).
The third season begins with humans in the role of suicide bombers. Ron Moore is telling us that the sucicide bombers in the Middle East are just doing what they have to do to defend themselves from the evil United States, and since the humans represent the U.S., the point is that you and I would become suicide bombers of things were reversed. Ignoring the fact that the Cylonss destroyed tens of billions of humans leaving behind only fifty thousand fleeing for their lives. Ignoring the fact the suicide bombing made absolutely no sense in the context of the plot.
Then we have a Star Chamber episode, the message being that humans are bad people. Chief Tyrol, a member of the Star Chamber, seems to ignore the fact the he himself was almost executed for worse crimes. He did kill a human to protect the "life" of a Cylon.
Then we have an episode in which the humans could have destroyed all of the Cylons, but Helo shows them how morally wrong this idea is by wrecking the plan, and then Adama and Roslyn come to their senses and agree that it's wrong to do back to the enemy what the enemy did first. The only moral response to genocide is to flee and hope that the enemy will run out of fuel or something. Because the Cylons have given the humans no indication to think that they will ever accept free humans living in the same galaxy as them.
You have to ask yourself if this is how real people would behave under these circumstance. Where is the anger at what happened? Why doesn't anyone want revenge? Well... some people wanted revenge against Gaeta, but when it comes to revenge against the evil robots, oh no, can't have that.
And finally we have the most recent episode, which is apparently an excuse to tell us once again how bad the humans are, because the humans provoked the Cylons and were planning how to make war on them. It's only natural the the Cylons pre-emptively attacked first. Ignoring the fact that they Cylons never even tried to have peaceful relations. They could have sent some robots to the meeting place each year to say "hey, we're nice guys, maybe we can be friends."
So the Cylons had Bulldog in prison, but they let him esacpe. Because they knew he would figure out how to fly a Cylon Raider, find the Galactica, and then kill Adama because they knew Adama felt so guilty about everything that he wouldn't take any sensible precautions, like having some guards around or keeping potentially compromised POWs under observation for a few weeks before they have the run of the only ship defending the humans. Huh? If Galactica is so easy to find, why don't they just jump in with the whole Cylon fleet and destroy the humans once and for all?
In comments, someone keeps suggesting how this season has nuances and subleties. Sorry, but there's nothing subtle here. The writers are bludgeoning us each week with some political point. When the show first started, you acutally felt the fear of the humans as they fled for their lives. But now, there's no fear, just a bunch of people who don't feel like they are worthy of living, and they they try to act as unworthy as possible.
God forbid that the writers give us a single example of people being nice to each other, but this season there is none of that. The TV show has been taken over by extreme leftists who believe that the United States is a bad country which doesn't deserve to exist, and they make this point week after week.
Comments:
Each episodes only purpose seems to be to make some leftist point about the United States' role in the world.
Wow. Really? So, you don't see any underlying questions about the qualities and emotions that comprise humanity, and the role love plays in this? That's what I saw as the theme of the whole show. I figured the current event allusions were just a hook; they weren't supposed to be perfect metaphors. But, clearly you are the more dedicated fan so perhaps you understand it on a deeper level than I do.
Wow. Really? So, you don't see any underlying questions about the qualities and emotions that comprise humanity, and the role love plays in this? That's what I saw as the theme of the whole show. I figured the current event allusions were just a hook; they weren't supposed to be perfect metaphors. But, clearly you are the more dedicated fan so perhaps you understand it on a deeper level than I do.
#
posted by 
: 11/19/2006 8:57 PM
: 11/19/2006 8:57 PM
Huh? If Galactica is so easy to find, why don't they just jump in with the whole Cylon fleet and destroy the humans once and for all?
Well, as to that, it has always seemed obvious to me that the Cylons have been playing cat-and-mouse with the humans the whole time. For the entirety of the first two seasons, D'Anna Biers was in the fleet and in communication with the Cylons. Presumably the Cylons could have known the colonial fleet's location at any time if they wished.
A criticism of this is the fact that it took the Cylons an entire year to find New Caprica. I don't have an explanation for that, unless Doral was just lying about the "signature of a nuclear explosion."
Though there are probably no more Cylons agents left in the fleet, they culd easily still have recon we don't know about. The last couple episodes suggest the Cylons are following the humans to Earth, and that's enough reason to not wipe them out.
The problem is that the more we learn about the Cylons, the harder it is to believe they have some elaborate master plan in mind, because their motivations don't appear to have been well thought-out by the writers.
Well, as to that, it has always seemed obvious to me that the Cylons have been playing cat-and-mouse with the humans the whole time. For the entirety of the first two seasons, D'Anna Biers was in the fleet and in communication with the Cylons. Presumably the Cylons could have known the colonial fleet's location at any time if they wished.
A criticism of this is the fact that it took the Cylons an entire year to find New Caprica. I don't have an explanation for that, unless Doral was just lying about the "signature of a nuclear explosion."
Though there are probably no more Cylons agents left in the fleet, they culd easily still have recon we don't know about. The last couple episodes suggest the Cylons are following the humans to Earth, and that's enough reason to not wipe them out.
The problem is that the more we learn about the Cylons, the harder it is to believe they have some elaborate master plan in mind, because their motivations don't appear to have been well thought-out by the writers.
As other reviewers in the press have pointed out, if the entire show is about running away wrap 9.9, the show would really suck. After two seasons, they had to change the focus of the show to something else.
The notion that they had the chance to destroy the entire cylon fleet is a joke, right? At best, all it would do is to slow them down and make them more cautious. Besides, if had that worked, show would be over.
About the lack of coherent direction among Cylons. Why hasn't anyone pointed out that there might be internal struggle going on within the Cylons?
After Capricas 6's robot on robot violence, the cylon nation was divided in two. One group wanted nothing to do with humans anymore. They stayed behind in their own worlds. The second group wanted to live with people. These are the cylons in New Caprica and the ones interested in Earth.
The notion that they had the chance to destroy the entire cylon fleet is a joke, right? At best, all it would do is to slow them down and make them more cautious. Besides, if had that worked, show would be over.
About the lack of coherent direction among Cylons. Why hasn't anyone pointed out that there might be internal struggle going on within the Cylons?
After Capricas 6's robot on robot violence, the cylon nation was divided in two. One group wanted nothing to do with humans anymore. They stayed behind in their own worlds. The second group wanted to live with people. These are the cylons in New Caprica and the ones interested in Earth.
#
posted by : 11/19/2006 11:12 PM
: 11/19/2006 11:12 PM
That's about as bad as my bi friend seeing lesbianism everywhere. You see what you want to see, so I guess if you want to see political references there, well then go ahead, doesn't mean that's really what they're doing.
#
posted by : 11/20/2006 3:13 AM
: 11/20/2006 3:13 AM
Season 3 is a vast improvement on the first two and not simply because it's making an idiot like you cry more than the Congresional elections, I understand that moral uncertainty is difficult for the right to understand or appreciate but for the rest of us with half a brain who enjoy a bit a bit of ambiguity it's something which inspires thought rather than simplistic childish rants about a TV show not sharing our increasingly discredited and rejected political opinions.
However I would ask you to please keep up this contribution to the Blogshphere as it always guarantees a chuckle.
However I would ask you to please keep up this contribution to the Blogshphere as it always guarantees a chuckle.
#
posted by : 11/20/2006 6:34 AM
: 11/20/2006 6:34 AM
Perhaps it's not the writers. Perhaps your reaction is exposing an underlying guilt, buried deep inside your psyche, that you feel about being an American.
#
posted by : 11/20/2006 7:38 AM
: 11/20/2006 7:38 AM
Saf
The problem is that the more we learn about the Cylons, the harder it is to believe they have some elaborate master plan in mind, because their motivations don't appear to have been well thought-out by the writers.
That is a very true statement. The plan seems to change from episode-to-episode. With this last episode, how and why was Baltar suddenly released from being tortured? Are we supposed to believe that because he shouted some things about god, they let him go?
anon
As other reviewers in the press have pointed out, if the entire show is about running away wrap 9.9, the show would really suck. After two seasons, they had to change the focus of the show to something else.
There are all sorts of episodes you can do that do not rely on the latest "how do we avoid the Cylons this week" plot. The problem right now is that they are going through stories at warp 9.9 and as a result not telling a story. With this week, we have Bulldog arrive, an entire back story rushed through, Adama's guilt, Bulldog trying to kill Adama after Tigh egged him on, and Adama saved after Tigh disuaded Bulldog. Add in some quick Cylon scenes and Adama getting a medal. (BTW, how did the Cylons know that Bulldog would find out that Adama shot him down and that he would try to take revenge?) It was all superficial. When you have arc storylines, you typically would have Bulldog woven in and out of a few stories to get a better understanding. I keep thinking back to Babylon5 which handled this much better and more consistently.
Also, are these people virtually without humor. We're well into season 3 and besides a few brief moments of dry humor, this show is humorless. An episode done mainly for humor once in-awhile does a lot to help a show. It also tends to give your characters some depth.
The notion that they had the chance to destroy the entire cylon fleet is a joke, right? At best, all it would do is to slow them down and make them more cautious.
Which means they should have used the weapon. Slowing down the pursuit would definitely be a benefit. It also makes the rest of the posturing of the episode that much more stupid. However, the episode must have been a joke then since all of the characters assumed it would have wiped out the Cylons, right? See how illogical this all becomes. The viewer then starts to realize the episode wasn't about a virus, but instead it was about cheap moralizing.
Now if the writers had been smart, they would have had the humans release the virus, shown the Cylons dying in the next episode, done several episodes without seeing any live Cylons (maybe one ep. where they run across some dead ones), have a surprise ep. where the Cylons reappear after everyone had relaxed, and do an ep. or two showing how Baltar saved them and became their emissary from god.
The problem is that the more we learn about the Cylons, the harder it is to believe they have some elaborate master plan in mind, because their motivations don't appear to have been well thought-out by the writers.
That is a very true statement. The plan seems to change from episode-to-episode. With this last episode, how and why was Baltar suddenly released from being tortured? Are we supposed to believe that because he shouted some things about god, they let him go?
anon
As other reviewers in the press have pointed out, if the entire show is about running away wrap 9.9, the show would really suck. After two seasons, they had to change the focus of the show to something else.
There are all sorts of episodes you can do that do not rely on the latest "how do we avoid the Cylons this week" plot. The problem right now is that they are going through stories at warp 9.9 and as a result not telling a story. With this week, we have Bulldog arrive, an entire back story rushed through, Adama's guilt, Bulldog trying to kill Adama after Tigh egged him on, and Adama saved after Tigh disuaded Bulldog. Add in some quick Cylon scenes and Adama getting a medal. (BTW, how did the Cylons know that Bulldog would find out that Adama shot him down and that he would try to take revenge?) It was all superficial. When you have arc storylines, you typically would have Bulldog woven in and out of a few stories to get a better understanding. I keep thinking back to Babylon5 which handled this much better and more consistently.
Also, are these people virtually without humor. We're well into season 3 and besides a few brief moments of dry humor, this show is humorless. An episode done mainly for humor once in-awhile does a lot to help a show. It also tends to give your characters some depth.
The notion that they had the chance to destroy the entire cylon fleet is a joke, right? At best, all it would do is to slow them down and make them more cautious.
Which means they should have used the weapon. Slowing down the pursuit would definitely be a benefit. It also makes the rest of the posturing of the episode that much more stupid. However, the episode must have been a joke then since all of the characters assumed it would have wiped out the Cylons, right? See how illogical this all becomes. The viewer then starts to realize the episode wasn't about a virus, but instead it was about cheap moralizing.
Now if the writers had been smart, they would have had the humans release the virus, shown the Cylons dying in the next episode, done several episodes without seeing any live Cylons (maybe one ep. where they run across some dead ones), have a surprise ep. where the Cylons reappear after everyone had relaxed, and do an ep. or two showing how Baltar saved them and became their emissary from god.
#
posted by : 11/20/2006 8:35 AM
: 11/20/2006 8:35 AM
In comments, someone keeps suggesting how this season has nuances and subleties. Sorry, but there's nothing subtle here. The writers are bludgeoning us each week with some political point. When the show first started, you acutally felt the fear of the humans as they fled for their lives. But now, there's no fear, just a bunch of people who don't feel like they are worthy of living, and they they try to act as unworthy as possible.
Let's try a thought experiment here, Michael - you say there's nothing subtle in the show, and that the humans are acting as unworthy of living as possible.
However, I'd argue that Helo's actions in A Measure of Salvation totally undercut your point. You're very much of the "Kill 'em all" school of thought, and certainly other characters have felt the same way - Apollo wasn't shy about advancing that plan, nor was Roslin in accepting it, and one can only imagine what Tigh would have said to anyone vetoing the idea.
However, Helo didn't want to do it, because he believed Cylons have at least the potential to be people. Now, it might be the case that Helo was basically brainwashed by his experiences on Caprica in Season 1 (there's that subtlety again!) but everything we've seen of Helo and Athena this season suggests that they really do love each other as much as any two people do, and that Athena's just as capable of being loyal and competent as any human.
That being the case, Helo was basically being asked to stand by for what he saw as the murder of millions of people. Even so, different people would have had different reactions to that situation - I get the vibe, for instance, that if you were a survivor of a Russian nuclear attack on the US, you'd have no problem launching a biological warfare attack back at the Russians - but other people can't and won't do that, and that doesn't make them bad people. Helo literally could not condone what he saw as genocide on that scale, not because he was unworthy of living, but because standing by would have made him unworthy of living.
Now, here's the punchline, Mike - I know you don't agree with that reading of the show, and you don't have to. But the fact that that reading exists as a plausible explanation at the same time as your (fairly valid) "kill 'em all" argument is proof positive of nuance and subtlety. Just because you don't agree with an argument doesn't mean it's not there, and the more possible meanings in a show (and there are plenty in the new BSG) the more subtlety there is.
God forbid that the writers give us a single example of people being nice to each other, but this season there is none of that.
Ellen Tigh made massive sacrifices for her husband, Jammer saved Cally's life, Starbuck went back for Casey, Adama and Athena built up a relationship of profound mutual respect out of nothing - there's plenty of people being "nice" to each other if you don't close your eyes.
The TV show has been taken over by extreme leftists who believe that the United States is a bad country which doesn't deserve to exist, and they make this point week after week.
Again, I think your own political biases are blinding you to what's actually going on. Roslin was never George W Bush, Baltar was never even remotely John Kerry. And the humans now are no less worthy of salvation than they ever were.
Let's try a thought experiment here, Michael - you say there's nothing subtle in the show, and that the humans are acting as unworthy of living as possible.
However, I'd argue that Helo's actions in A Measure of Salvation totally undercut your point. You're very much of the "Kill 'em all" school of thought, and certainly other characters have felt the same way - Apollo wasn't shy about advancing that plan, nor was Roslin in accepting it, and one can only imagine what Tigh would have said to anyone vetoing the idea.
However, Helo didn't want to do it, because he believed Cylons have at least the potential to be people. Now, it might be the case that Helo was basically brainwashed by his experiences on Caprica in Season 1 (there's that subtlety again!) but everything we've seen of Helo and Athena this season suggests that they really do love each other as much as any two people do, and that Athena's just as capable of being loyal and competent as any human.
That being the case, Helo was basically being asked to stand by for what he saw as the murder of millions of people. Even so, different people would have had different reactions to that situation - I get the vibe, for instance, that if you were a survivor of a Russian nuclear attack on the US, you'd have no problem launching a biological warfare attack back at the Russians - but other people can't and won't do that, and that doesn't make them bad people. Helo literally could not condone what he saw as genocide on that scale, not because he was unworthy of living, but because standing by would have made him unworthy of living.
Now, here's the punchline, Mike - I know you don't agree with that reading of the show, and you don't have to. But the fact that that reading exists as a plausible explanation at the same time as your (fairly valid) "kill 'em all" argument is proof positive of nuance and subtlety. Just because you don't agree with an argument doesn't mean it's not there, and the more possible meanings in a show (and there are plenty in the new BSG) the more subtlety there is.
God forbid that the writers give us a single example of people being nice to each other, but this season there is none of that.
Ellen Tigh made massive sacrifices for her husband, Jammer saved Cally's life, Starbuck went back for Casey, Adama and Athena built up a relationship of profound mutual respect out of nothing - there's plenty of people being "nice" to each other if you don't close your eyes.
The TV show has been taken over by extreme leftists who believe that the United States is a bad country which doesn't deserve to exist, and they make this point week after week.
Again, I think your own political biases are blinding you to what's actually going on. Roslin was never George W Bush, Baltar was never even remotely John Kerry. And the humans now are no less worthy of salvation than they ever were.
#
posted by : 11/20/2006 4:54 PM
: 11/20/2006 4:54 PM
I don't buy all the political allegories being read into it (though I do think the show has a definite liberal tilt). Although the snarky comments from some of the liberals shows that they see the exact same things as the proprieter of this blog, but they agree with the readings and so see nothing wrong with it.
However, there are some very good points made in the post besides the political ones.
So the Cylons had Bulldog in prison, but they let him esacpe. Because they knew he would figure out how to fly a Cylon Raider, find the Galactica, and then kill Adama because they knew Adama felt so guilty about everything that he wouldn't take any sensible precautions, like having some guards around or keeping potentially compromised POWs under observation for a few weeks before they have the run of the only ship defending the humans.
This is an excellent point.
So is this: When the show first started, you acutally felt the fear of the humans as they fled for their lives. But now, there's no fear, just a bunch of people who don't feel like they are worthy of living, and they they try to act as unworthy as possible.
The problem is that the Cylons have no plan right now, other than to get into kinky sex with Baltar and gain revelation in bizarre reincarnation, apparently. The storylines of the last two episodes seem rushed and not thought through. The writers seem more interested in making "points" (political or otherwise) than in writing character driven drama.
However, there are some very good points made in the post besides the political ones.
So the Cylons had Bulldog in prison, but they let him esacpe. Because they knew he would figure out how to fly a Cylon Raider, find the Galactica, and then kill Adama because they knew Adama felt so guilty about everything that he wouldn't take any sensible precautions, like having some guards around or keeping potentially compromised POWs under observation for a few weeks before they have the run of the only ship defending the humans.
This is an excellent point.
So is this: When the show first started, you acutally felt the fear of the humans as they fled for their lives. But now, there's no fear, just a bunch of people who don't feel like they are worthy of living, and they they try to act as unworthy as possible.
The problem is that the Cylons have no plan right now, other than to get into kinky sex with Baltar and gain revelation in bizarre reincarnation, apparently. The storylines of the last two episodes seem rushed and not thought through. The writers seem more interested in making "points" (political or otherwise) than in writing character driven drama.
Personally, I think it's people's own oversensitivity that are leading them to conclude that series three is just an allegory for the occupation of Iraq. The first four episodes of this series are the best television I have ever seen, and taken together, better than almost any film I can think of.
From my point of view, the closest prallels lie with the Nazi puppet regimes put in place during WWII, such as those in France (Vichy) and Slovakia (Tiso). The arguement for this is not just based on the supposed smiliarity of the NCP unifomrs to those of some Nazi elements. It is mroe to do with the state of the society. Firstly, you have an aggression from an overwhelming military power that subjugates the native population. Then you have the installation of a puppet regime from the native population in an attempt to present an image of co-oepration between the opressors and the oppressed. Most importantly, and this is where the Iraq comparison falls down, the New Caprican population is not split into factions. There are no rival groups making grabs for power as there is in Iraq. There only group that aren't horrified by the Cylon occupation are the collaborators. Beyond them, all want are fighting the same fight. This isn't the case in Iraq where religious and cultural communities are warring with each other as well as the occupying powers. I think Series Three is a comment on the morals of occupation in general it's just that Iraq immediately springs to the mind of those who could do with reading a few more books.
Other than that, Collaborators has drawn brilliantly on the communist experience in Eastern Europe, particularly the virtues of lustration in the post-communist era and the question of how to deal with collaborators when really, almost the whole of society was complicit with the regime.
The point about suicide bombings clearly brings to the mind the Middle East (also the UK if you think back to July last year). But I don't think the producers were trying to elicit sympathy for the bombers, just to show how desperation can lead people to committing acts that they previously thought abhorrent. And you'll also note that it was portrayed as the actions of a small, fanatical minority (mainly Tigh and a couple of others), and that it was stopped by the leadership of the New Caprican resistance immediatley. Both Tyrol and Roslin made very strong statments against the action.
You can read into BSG what you like, and maybe some points were being made about the conduct of war in Iraq but I think by making the humans less than perfect, the writers are just injecting some reality into the show. It's never forgotten that the Cylons wiped out billions of people and regularly use torture to extract information (and eyes) from human prisoners. It's hard to have sympathy with people who do that but it's ridiculous and George Lucas-esque to expect a simple good guys-bad guys split in which the good guys always act according to a high-minded moral code. If you really like that sort of simplistic set-up then you can always go back to the boy scouts versus hell demons set-up established in the Original Series.
From my point of view, the closest prallels lie with the Nazi puppet regimes put in place during WWII, such as those in France (Vichy) and Slovakia (Tiso). The arguement for this is not just based on the supposed smiliarity of the NCP unifomrs to those of some Nazi elements. It is mroe to do with the state of the society. Firstly, you have an aggression from an overwhelming military power that subjugates the native population. Then you have the installation of a puppet regime from the native population in an attempt to present an image of co-oepration between the opressors and the oppressed. Most importantly, and this is where the Iraq comparison falls down, the New Caprican population is not split into factions. There are no rival groups making grabs for power as there is in Iraq. There only group that aren't horrified by the Cylon occupation are the collaborators. Beyond them, all want are fighting the same fight. This isn't the case in Iraq where religious and cultural communities are warring with each other as well as the occupying powers. I think Series Three is a comment on the morals of occupation in general it's just that Iraq immediately springs to the mind of those who could do with reading a few more books.
Other than that, Collaborators has drawn brilliantly on the communist experience in Eastern Europe, particularly the virtues of lustration in the post-communist era and the question of how to deal with collaborators when really, almost the whole of society was complicit with the regime.
The point about suicide bombings clearly brings to the mind the Middle East (also the UK if you think back to July last year). But I don't think the producers were trying to elicit sympathy for the bombers, just to show how desperation can lead people to committing acts that they previously thought abhorrent. And you'll also note that it was portrayed as the actions of a small, fanatical minority (mainly Tigh and a couple of others), and that it was stopped by the leadership of the New Caprican resistance immediatley. Both Tyrol and Roslin made very strong statments against the action.
You can read into BSG what you like, and maybe some points were being made about the conduct of war in Iraq but I think by making the humans less than perfect, the writers are just injecting some reality into the show. It's never forgotten that the Cylons wiped out billions of people and regularly use torture to extract information (and eyes) from human prisoners. It's hard to have sympathy with people who do that but it's ridiculous and George Lucas-esque to expect a simple good guys-bad guys split in which the good guys always act according to a high-minded moral code. If you really like that sort of simplistic set-up then you can always go back to the boy scouts versus hell demons set-up established in the Original Series.
#
posted by : 11/21/2006 8:13 AM
: 11/21/2006 8:13 AM
chris
Just because you don't agree with an argument doesn't mean it's not there, and the more possible meanings in a show (and there are plenty in the new BSG) the more subtlety there is.
Throwing out different arguments does not represent subtlety or nuance. The writers wanted to state that using the bio-weapon against the Cylons was wrong. They threw in a cursory 5 minute "debate" and then had Helo run out and sabotage the plan. How many pilots died because of his actions? How many limited resources were wasted? How was morale effected since a good chance to hamper the Cylon fleet was lost? How pathetic do Rosalyn and Adama look since they don't seem to really care that a good opportunity was sabotaged? Instead, the matter is dropped since the writers have used a sledge hammer to make their point.
Ellen Tigh made massive sacrifices for her husband, Jammer saved Cally's life, Starbuck went back for Casey, Adama and Athena built up a relationship of profound mutual respect out of nothing - there's plenty of people being "nice" to each other if you don't close your eyes.
The whole Ellen Tigh bit felt completely out of place from the start. She obviously was a self-centered tramp. Her sudden self-sacrifice, never made sense. No, there isn't plenty of being nice. The show is light on camaraderie, kindness, and humor.
Just because you don't agree with an argument doesn't mean it's not there, and the more possible meanings in a show (and there are plenty in the new BSG) the more subtlety there is.
Throwing out different arguments does not represent subtlety or nuance. The writers wanted to state that using the bio-weapon against the Cylons was wrong. They threw in a cursory 5 minute "debate" and then had Helo run out and sabotage the plan. How many pilots died because of his actions? How many limited resources were wasted? How was morale effected since a good chance to hamper the Cylon fleet was lost? How pathetic do Rosalyn and Adama look since they don't seem to really care that a good opportunity was sabotaged? Instead, the matter is dropped since the writers have used a sledge hammer to make their point.
Ellen Tigh made massive sacrifices for her husband, Jammer saved Cally's life, Starbuck went back for Casey, Adama and Athena built up a relationship of profound mutual respect out of nothing - there's plenty of people being "nice" to each other if you don't close your eyes.
The whole Ellen Tigh bit felt completely out of place from the start. She obviously was a self-centered tramp. Her sudden self-sacrifice, never made sense. No, there isn't plenty of being nice. The show is light on camaraderie, kindness, and humor.
#
posted by : 11/21/2006 10:15 AM
: 11/21/2006 10:15 AM
Terrahawk, I couldn't disagree with you more about Ellen Tigh. Her character was always about the contrast between her disloyalty to Tigh in sexual matters and her otherwise rapid loyalty to him.
In the "Colonial Day" episode, she is clearly cosying up to Zarek with the intent of helping out Tigh's career. She gives Tigh all kinds of suggestions with the clear intent of helping him when he's temporarily in command while Adama is hurt.
Of course, her judgment also consistently sucks, as we saw when Tigh was in command. Her betrayal is a natural continuation of this theme, and not out of place at all.
In the "Colonial Day" episode, she is clearly cosying up to Zarek with the intent of helping out Tigh's career. She gives Tigh all kinds of suggestions with the clear intent of helping him when he's temporarily in command while Adama is hurt.
Of course, her judgment also consistently sucks, as we saw when Tigh was in command. Her betrayal is a natural continuation of this theme, and not out of place at all.
I am a fan of the show and love its ambiguities. There are several problems which seem to growing from a small snowball which may eventually turn into an avalanche of incongruities as the series goes on.
1. If the cylons have a plan -this obviously involves the human survivors, therefore why try continually to wipe them out in series 1 & 2 at least? If the cylons have a plan i wish they would inform the writer's of the show as to what it may be.
2. when starbuck did photo recon of the cylon rebirth ship, surely this would have been a great opportunity to get pics of all 12 cylon models?they obviously got pics of model 12.
3. The cylon testing kit appears to have been brushed under the carpet and the warning that adama is a cylon forgotten about. Adama was never tested (neither of them)
4. There appeared to be an over emphasis on religion up until the last episode of season 2. This may be my bias but the cylons believing in one true god when we made them seems a bit odd. It works on one level in that they feel they are more worthy than us. But there again how can that be so if they commit massive genocide. Love appears to be a major key here.
cylons who love humans somehow appear to be beter morally and ethically. There are obvious exceptions to this as well though.
5. The use of astrological star signs and constellations was pretty naff in the original series and unscientific, they should have ditched this idea in the updated series.
The best theme of the show is the one of we have to be worthy to survive, even if this makes people make decisions which could be bad for the survivors. Eg adama challenging Roselyn about the rigged election. The survivors would stand a much better chance with Roselyn still in charge. Adama knew Baltar is dodgy on some level and that settlement on new caprica was highly dangerous, despite the fact that the pastor cylon model was an atheist and stated that the cylons were no longer interested in humans.
6. So why do the cylons turn up a year after the nuke explosion anyway and still believing in god?
I haven't seen series 3 yet so maybe thats explained?
I hope a lot of these basic questions are dealt with or the show will start coming apart at the seems with inconsistancies.
1. If the cylons have a plan -this obviously involves the human survivors, therefore why try continually to wipe them out in series 1 & 2 at least? If the cylons have a plan i wish they would inform the writer's of the show as to what it may be.
2. when starbuck did photo recon of the cylon rebirth ship, surely this would have been a great opportunity to get pics of all 12 cylon models?they obviously got pics of model 12.
3. The cylon testing kit appears to have been brushed under the carpet and the warning that adama is a cylon forgotten about. Adama was never tested (neither of them)
4. There appeared to be an over emphasis on religion up until the last episode of season 2. This may be my bias but the cylons believing in one true god when we made them seems a bit odd. It works on one level in that they feel they are more worthy than us. But there again how can that be so if they commit massive genocide. Love appears to be a major key here.
cylons who love humans somehow appear to be beter morally and ethically. There are obvious exceptions to this as well though.
5. The use of astrological star signs and constellations was pretty naff in the original series and unscientific, they should have ditched this idea in the updated series.
The best theme of the show is the one of we have to be worthy to survive, even if this makes people make decisions which could be bad for the survivors. Eg adama challenging Roselyn about the rigged election. The survivors would stand a much better chance with Roselyn still in charge. Adama knew Baltar is dodgy on some level and that settlement on new caprica was highly dangerous, despite the fact that the pastor cylon model was an atheist and stated that the cylons were no longer interested in humans.
6. So why do the cylons turn up a year after the nuke explosion anyway and still believing in god?
I haven't seen series 3 yet so maybe thats explained?
I hope a lot of these basic questions are dealt with or the show will start coming apart at the seems with inconsistancies.
#
posted by : 11/24/2006 2:54 PM
: 11/24/2006 2:54 PM
your a retard mate if you think that the show is going downhill just because it is getting a little too real for you. if you still believe that the world really is divided into 'terrorists' and 'the free', then you really are lacking in mental faculties and should not complain when a television show returns to the original purpose of the media - to inform. in a world where the news is propoganda, we are asked to buy everything at any occasion, satire is the only method that is left to the peoples of the world (notice how i insinuate the USA is part of the world - not that a conservative money-masterbating fuck like you would care) to critisise the world. sure, bsg may be a little leftist, but science fiction has always had that bias. so grow up and stop complaining. if you want popcorn s-f, watch the new star wars. not something credit-worthy like bsg. overall, i like the new series. its different, and challenging.
#
posted by : 11/25/2006 12:03 PM
: 11/25/2006 12:03 PM
With respect, remember that the real bad guys hate the freedoms of democracies. We should not battle each other. Let's just enjoy the show folks! By the way - Anyone think Dualla is a cylon? And, can they now test the fleet or maybe even critical personnel for immunity to the virus?
#
posted by : 11/25/2006 6:31 PM
: 11/25/2006 6:31 PM
I agree that Season 3 represents a downturn from the previous 2 seasons. Now, I have issues with the politics expressed, and it constantly floors me how most Americans see only two stances on any issue: the one I agree with, which is the Holy Writ; and the one I oppose, which must surely be spawned from Satan's mind. The real world doesn't work that way: there are plenty of conservatives who oppose the occupation of Iraq (or at the very least, its piss-poor execution), and there are plenty of liberals who support it. A stance opposing the occupation of Iraq is not automatically a "left-wing" stance.
That said, I do agree that Season 3 doesn't seem to be as good as the previous two. I do get the sense that the writers are twisting character and common sense to make political points.
My biggest problem is how incompetent recent plot lines make the characters look. Now, I'm no expert on the day-to-day details of military protocol, but I'd hope most real-world armies are far more competent than the Colonials. Over the first two seasons, they've managed to lose two valueable prisoners: first, Boomer gets Jack Ruby-ed by Cally because they were dumb enough to move a prisoner through a crowded corridor without clearing it first. Then, Gina, the Six who was tortured by the Pegasus crew, is let loose by Baltar and manages to assassinate Admiral Cain. You'd think after such massive breaches of security, it would have occurred to them to maintain maximum security and surveillance on all prisoners. But no. Helo is able to access the cell of the infect Cylons and kill them before anyone is able to intervene.
Then, we have the "biological weapon" itself. So humans and Cylons are extremely close genetically, such that they're able to breed with each other. And yet we have a disease that all humans are completely immune to, but is 100% fatal to all Cylons. And the vaccine is apparently sexually-transmitted, because Athena is also immune. But all the Cylons who've infiltrated the fleet or been running farms on Caprica and have had three or four years of exposure to humans haven't developed a resistance to human diseases, or spread that resistance through the resurrection process. I could accept the disease being pretty bad for the Cylons, but 100% fatal? No naturally-occurring illness is that destructive. Bacteria and viruses are living beings too--parasites; and a parasite that completely destroys its host population isn't a very successful organism.
Ronald D. Moore keeps writing about how Galactica is supposed to represent a grittier and more realistic type of sci-fi. But this season shows he's just as likely to manipulate realism and common sense to railroad a preachy plotline in there.
That said, I do agree that Season 3 doesn't seem to be as good as the previous two. I do get the sense that the writers are twisting character and common sense to make political points.
My biggest problem is how incompetent recent plot lines make the characters look. Now, I'm no expert on the day-to-day details of military protocol, but I'd hope most real-world armies are far more competent than the Colonials. Over the first two seasons, they've managed to lose two valueable prisoners: first, Boomer gets Jack Ruby-ed by Cally because they were dumb enough to move a prisoner through a crowded corridor without clearing it first. Then, Gina, the Six who was tortured by the Pegasus crew, is let loose by Baltar and manages to assassinate Admiral Cain. You'd think after such massive breaches of security, it would have occurred to them to maintain maximum security and surveillance on all prisoners. But no. Helo is able to access the cell of the infect Cylons and kill them before anyone is able to intervene.
Then, we have the "biological weapon" itself. So humans and Cylons are extremely close genetically, such that they're able to breed with each other. And yet we have a disease that all humans are completely immune to, but is 100% fatal to all Cylons. And the vaccine is apparently sexually-transmitted, because Athena is also immune. But all the Cylons who've infiltrated the fleet or been running farms on Caprica and have had three or four years of exposure to humans haven't developed a resistance to human diseases, or spread that resistance through the resurrection process. I could accept the disease being pretty bad for the Cylons, but 100% fatal? No naturally-occurring illness is that destructive. Bacteria and viruses are living beings too--parasites; and a parasite that completely destroys its host population isn't a very successful organism.
Ronald D. Moore keeps writing about how Galactica is supposed to represent a grittier and more realistic type of sci-fi. But this season shows he's just as likely to manipulate realism and common sense to railroad a preachy plotline in there.
#
posted by : 11/27/2006 12:00 PM
: 11/27/2006 12:00 PM
Another point: saf noted that "the more we learn about the Cylons, the harder it is to believe they have some elaborate master plan in mind, because their motivations don't appear to have been well thought-out by the writers." I agree, and this is a similar problem in the 3rd season of Lost: for two seasons we had this wily enemy who always seemed two steps ahead and whose presence and motives were mostly hidden. Now, as we learn more about both the Cylons and The Others, they can't possibly live up to the expectations we've created in our own minds. Instead of some brilliant, byzantine plan for world domination, they seem to be stumbling goofballs whose plans aren't even as well thought-out as your average Bond villain.
Maybe shows with quality writing can't sustain it very long and should wrap things up more quickly. Maybe we could tolerate 6 or 7 seasons of Next Generation or DS9 because most episodes were mediocre, making those really good episodes stand out. While Lost and BSG had such quality writing for most of their first 2 seasons, when they start to flag, you notice it. Kind of like the kid who maintained a B-minus average through school is praised by his parents when he gets the occasional A, while the kid with a straight A average is punished when he starts getting B-plusses in his 3rd year of high school.
Maybe shows with quality writing can't sustain it very long and should wrap things up more quickly. Maybe we could tolerate 6 or 7 seasons of Next Generation or DS9 because most episodes were mediocre, making those really good episodes stand out. While Lost and BSG had such quality writing for most of their first 2 seasons, when they start to flag, you notice it. Kind of like the kid who maintained a B-minus average through school is praised by his parents when he gets the occasional A, while the kid with a straight A average is punished when he starts getting B-plusses in his 3rd year of high school.
#
posted by : 11/27/2006 12:08 PM
: 11/27/2006 12:08 PM
Saf
Terrahawk, I couldn't disagree with you more about Ellen Tigh. Her character was always about the contrast between her disloyalty to Tigh in sexual matters and her otherwise rapid loyalty to him.
I can't necessarily disagree with that logical viewpoint. However, her loyalty, to me, always seemed to be based on her gaining influence and power (i.e. only thinking about herself). The only reason I could see her working to get Tighe out would be if she couldn't protect herself any other way.
Terrahawk, I couldn't disagree with you more about Ellen Tigh. Her character was always about the contrast between her disloyalty to Tigh in sexual matters and her otherwise rapid loyalty to him.
I can't necessarily disagree with that logical viewpoint. However, her loyalty, to me, always seemed to be based on her gaining influence and power (i.e. only thinking about herself). The only reason I could see her working to get Tighe out would be if she couldn't protect herself any other way.
#
posted by : 11/28/2006 7:21 AM
: 11/28/2006 7:21 AM
I had a real problem with the suicide bomber thing. I am glad that ole one eye got rid of that gauze, I was wondering when he would finally opt for a patch. A pink one made from his wife's dress seems sort of gay though.
#
posted by : 11/29/2006 5:31 PM
: 11/29/2006 5:31 PM
This show has gone downhill and I probably will stop watching it after that last episode.
There is a definite liberal slant to every episode. With Sci-Fi, you must suspend your disbelief in certain plot elements but that doesn't mean you have to excuse idiotic writing.
Recent episode with the virus, they board a cylon base ship which appears to be disable without pressure suits? They plan to infect the Cylons by killing one of them when the resurrection ship is in range. But, they put all the prisoners together in one cell without any observation. Then they wait to Adam gives the order and have to march across the ship to carry out the execution. Stupid. Of course, if you want to have someone kill all the prisoners and fulfill the liberal credo of treason as the ultimate form of patriotism, it makes sense.
I like the first two seasons, but this show has really jumped the shark.
There is a definite liberal slant to every episode. With Sci-Fi, you must suspend your disbelief in certain plot elements but that doesn't mean you have to excuse idiotic writing.
Recent episode with the virus, they board a cylon base ship which appears to be disable without pressure suits? They plan to infect the Cylons by killing one of them when the resurrection ship is in range. But, they put all the prisoners together in one cell without any observation. Then they wait to Adam gives the order and have to march across the ship to carry out the execution. Stupid. Of course, if you want to have someone kill all the prisoners and fulfill the liberal credo of treason as the ultimate form of patriotism, it makes sense.
I like the first two seasons, but this show has really jumped the shark.
#
posted by : 12/02/2006 11:11 AM
: 12/02/2006 11:11 AM
This show has gone downhill and I probably will stop watching it after that last episode.
There is a definite liberal slant to every episode. With Sci-Fi, you must suspend your disbelief in certain plot elements but that doesn't mean you have to excuse idiotic writing.
Recent episode with the virus, they board a cylon base ship which appears to be disable without pressure suits? They plan to infect the Cylons by killing one of them when the resurrection ship is in range. But, they put all the prisoners together in one cell without any observation. Then they wait to Adam gives the order and have to march across the ship to carry out the execution. Stupid. Of course, if you want to have someone kill all the prisoners and fulfill the liberal credo of treason as the ultimate form of patriotism, it makes sense.
I like the first two seasons, but this show has really jumped the shark.
There is a definite liberal slant to every episode. With Sci-Fi, you must suspend your disbelief in certain plot elements but that doesn't mean you have to excuse idiotic writing.
Recent episode with the virus, they board a cylon base ship which appears to be disable without pressure suits? They plan to infect the Cylons by killing one of them when the resurrection ship is in range. But, they put all the prisoners together in one cell without any observation. Then they wait to Adam gives the order and have to march across the ship to carry out the execution. Stupid. Of course, if you want to have someone kill all the prisoners and fulfill the liberal credo of treason as the ultimate form of patriotism, it makes sense.
I like the first two seasons, but this show has really jumped the shark.
Please stop spamming my email at www.upaas.com! You're not getting any links out of it, and your spam just gets deleted anyway. Stop being a nuisance!
1) The Cylon technology is more advanced than human technology.
2) The Cylon religion is different than the human religion.
3) There are only a very limited number of human-appearing models.
Makes me wonder--is there a human behind the Cylons? A "mad scientist" who died after creating a limited number of models but who instilled his religous beliefs on them? Maybe he was a recluse and the Cylons have taken his anger at the humans and decided to wipe them out (or at least drop the population to easily manageble numbers).
On a different note--I like the action episodes, not the we-could-leave-it-out-and-not-effect-the-plot episodes. There is getting to be too much emphasis on internal relations. They need to make a point and get back to some action. And not a boxing match--scifi action.
2) The Cylon religion is different than the human religion.
3) There are only a very limited number of human-appearing models.
Makes me wonder--is there a human behind the Cylons? A "mad scientist" who died after creating a limited number of models but who instilled his religous beliefs on them? Maybe he was a recluse and the Cylons have taken his anger at the humans and decided to wipe them out (or at least drop the population to easily manageble numbers).
On a different note--I like the action episodes, not the we-could-leave-it-out-and-not-effect-the-plot episodes. There is getting to be too much emphasis on internal relations. They need to make a point and get back to some action. And not a boxing match--scifi action.
#
posted by : 12/03/2006 10:38 AM
: 12/03/2006 10:38 AM
On more action - Agreed! I did really like the boxing
and look forward to some battles against the cylons.
It would be interesting to see how clever Adama can be as a tactician. Also, here's a plea to the writers for Kara and Lee to end up together!
and look forward to some battles against the cylons.
It would be interesting to see how clever Adama can be as a tactician. Also, here's a plea to the writers for Kara and Lee to end up together!
#
posted by : 12/03/2006 3:55 PM
: 12/03/2006 3:55 PM
I was not looking forward to the boxing episode. I figured it would be like that terrible TNG episode with people trapped in a Wild West program on the Holodeck, or "Casino Royale".
However, I have to say that I generally liked it. Everyone's actions were fairly believable, and I liked the relevation of the military tradition of "secret" fights.
Though I wonder whether Dee and Anders know what happened, because earlier both seemed to know that Lee and Starbuck were both very pissed at each other.
The only objection I have is that nothing from the previous two episodes was mentioned in the slightest: nothing about the search for Earth, or Bulldog. We only know that it happens after "Hero" because Tigh is a boxing ref, rather than in a drunken stupor in his room.
However, I have to say that I generally liked it. Everyone's actions were fairly believable, and I liked the relevation of the military tradition of "secret" fights.
Though I wonder whether Dee and Anders know what happened, because earlier both seemed to know that Lee and Starbuck were both very pissed at each other.
The only objection I have is that nothing from the previous two episodes was mentioned in the slightest: nothing about the search for Earth, or Bulldog. We only know that it happens after "Hero" because Tigh is a boxing ref, rather than in a drunken stupor in his room.
I didn't think it was possible, but BSG hit a new low. It's perverse that any human culture would have men and women boxing each other. I find women fighting at all, except by necessity, to be distasteful and a sign of a culture's failing masculinity. In the real world, Starbuck would have been pummeled. And somehow, Apollo and Starbuck beating each other into a bloody pulp is so wonderful because they recognize their love for each other? Around here we call that, at best, dysfunctional. This was a disgusting episode.
#
posted by : 12/03/2006 9:47 PM
: 12/03/2006 9:47 PM
Of course Starbuck would be soundly beaten in "real life". Think of her as a comic book heroine or Princess Leia on Red Bull and you won't see the fight as so unlikely. (Also, she did not exactly fight fair and was clearly outmatched.) Yes, it was not wonderful that they were fighting eachother. Starbuck was abused as a child and is clearly "messed up", the only way she saw to get close to Lee was through violence. The hope here is that she can get past her past, heal mentally and her and Lee can ride off into the sunset.
#
posted by : 12/03/2006 11:01 PM
: 12/03/2006 11:01 PM
Ummm, this show was supposed to be more realistic. Suddenly though it's a comic book? For all of Lucas' faults, he never had Leia doing something so impossible that it pulled you out of the show.
So, Starbuck is messed up and Lee is a woman beater who enables her. How much nicer can it get. I feel the family love already. They both screwed over people who cared about them and we're supposed to hope it just all works out and they end up happily together? The only thing I'm hoping for is that the Cylons waste them.
So, Starbuck is messed up and Lee is a woman beater who enables her. How much nicer can it get. I feel the family love already. They both screwed over people who cared about them and we're supposed to hope it just all works out and they end up happily together? The only thing I'm hoping for is that the Cylons waste them.
#
posted by : 12/04/2006 7:40 AM
: 12/04/2006 7:40 AM
season 3 sucks alright, but not exactly for the reasons presented. The problem with this season is that the characters are vastly different personality-wise from where they've always been throughout the series.
example: since when does the president approve of genocide? since when does appolo approve of genocide? since when does starbuck sit in on a tribunal executing people?
fact of the matter is, all these characters have been changed so much (granted, a year of living on new caprica and being oppressed by the cylons may be responisble for some of it) that they are for the most part entirely unlikeable and unrelatable now.
I used to like starbuck, but now she's a brooding angry mess instead of the gung-ho stud pilot with the cigar in her mouth. appolo used to be the moral compass on the ship (remember when he was the president's vioce in the military? it was to keep adama from doing something stupid), and now he doesn't mind executing an entire race, and in addition he grudge-fuck married dualla? since when is he that callous?
the list could go on and on, but the unifying theme is that the characters I could actually identify with are long dead and all that's left are these crudely drawn caricatures of OC style drama queens that just happen to look like the cast from the BSg I actually enjoyed.
screw the political commentary. this show sucks because the writers have destroyed the characters.
example: since when does the president approve of genocide? since when does appolo approve of genocide? since when does starbuck sit in on a tribunal executing people?
fact of the matter is, all these characters have been changed so much (granted, a year of living on new caprica and being oppressed by the cylons may be responisble for some of it) that they are for the most part entirely unlikeable and unrelatable now.
I used to like starbuck, but now she's a brooding angry mess instead of the gung-ho stud pilot with the cigar in her mouth. appolo used to be the moral compass on the ship (remember when he was the president's vioce in the military? it was to keep adama from doing something stupid), and now he doesn't mind executing an entire race, and in addition he grudge-fuck married dualla? since when is he that callous?
the list could go on and on, but the unifying theme is that the characters I could actually identify with are long dead and all that's left are these crudely drawn caricatures of OC style drama queens that just happen to look like the cast from the BSg I actually enjoyed.
screw the political commentary. this show sucks because the writers have destroyed the characters.
#
posted by : 12/06/2006 1:26 PM
: 12/06/2006 1:26 PM
O.K people I am starting to see your point.
I still love the show but, I really do hope that the characters start behaving in a more upright manner. Give us a good battle against the cylons, let us see some human ingenuity and tactics. I do not want to see anymore space mermaids!
I still love the show but, I really do hope that the characters start behaving in a more upright manner. Give us a good battle against the cylons, let us see some human ingenuity and tactics. I do not want to see anymore space mermaids!
#
posted by : 12/09/2006 9:44 PM
: 12/09/2006 9:44 PM
Seriously, all you talk about is some kind of liberal conspiracy on the part of the writers, and how bad the show is. Why do you still watch? I love it, and every season has gotten better and better. My wife doesn't even like sci fi and she's hooked. When I don't like a show, I just don't watch it anymore. You're either taking extreme political views towards the show just to get people mad so they'll respond, or you're just one of those people who needs something to complain about.
#
posted by : 12/09/2006 10:50 PM
: 12/09/2006 10:50 PM
Whose talking liberal conspiracy? BSG is still the best show on TV. There is nothing wrong with making a wish list for your favorite show and it's characters who you have grown to love.
#
posted by : 12/09/2006 11:06 PM
: 12/09/2006 11:06 PM
I can't stand season 3, but not for any political reasons. BG used to be a fantastic sci-fi show. Season 3 is is way too much "Drama". While there needs to be some drama to carry the plot, it's starting to get absurd. The writting has become so forced, characters are now acting completely different episode-to-episode to make a convienent dramatic point week-to-week. I do not even look forward to the new episodes anymore. I truly hope this changes as I was a big fan of the series.
#
posted by : 12/10/2006 6:41 PM
: 12/10/2006 6:41 PM
well like others stated already that's not why season 3 sucks, but it does definitely suck.. too bad
#
posted by : 12/11/2006 1:50 PM
: 12/11/2006 1:50 PM
Yeah it sucks now. I was a huge fan of the show right up to the point where they pulled that miracle cure for pres Rosalyn's cancer. It seemed to me that marked the end of the show with the well thought out story that seemed to be all laid out in advance and the beginning of a show that is being made up as we go along. And pretty much every character has gone completely against who they were established to be and not in a good way. They pulled that crazy New Caprica stunt and then pretty much pushed the reset button to get us back to where we started. Aside from Helo being on the bridge (despite multiple acts of treason?) and Baltar being with the cylons were're right back where we started. Starbuck's a mom, no wait she's not. Lee and Starbuck are married, no I guess they won't be anymore. Tigh snapped no he's back at Adama's side. On and on.
What really kills it for me though is when the show started it was about choices...needing to make them and facing the consequences. We're facing extinction so when you want to fight we need to run, when you want to help the thousands of people stuck on ships that can't keep up we have to leave them behind, etc. Shows like Star Trek were always about taking the moral high ground and everything working out. BSG was about how things aren't that simple.
Anyways, the writing, characters, storyline, it's all gone downhill. If you still like it that's all good, but you have to admit it's not the quality that it was last season.
What really kills it for me though is when the show started it was about choices...needing to make them and facing the consequences. We're facing extinction so when you want to fight we need to run, when you want to help the thousands of people stuck on ships that can't keep up we have to leave them behind, etc. Shows like Star Trek were always about taking the moral high ground and everything working out. BSG was about how things aren't that simple.
Anyways, the writing, characters, storyline, it's all gone downhill. If you still like it that's all good, but you have to admit it's not the quality that it was last season.
#
posted by : 12/11/2006 10:53 PM
: 12/11/2006 10:53 PM
The Scripts are really bad to begin with. The fact that in this series Men are weak, and must be led by Women, who also beat them up and always,always take the top when having sex, has in fact made this a Lesbo show. I think in the next episode Marry McDonald Beats up and has her way with Edward James Olmos.
What we need is a new Star Trek series to replace this mindless prattle.
What we need is a new Star Trek series to replace this mindless prattle.
#
posted by : 12/15/2006 3:22 PM
: 12/15/2006 3:22 PM
I agree with two things mentioned in previous posts. 1. The miracle cure for cancer was a weak and lame way to get the Roslyn character out of dying of cancer and the fact that the male characters are emasculated is more that enough for me. I stopped watching around episode 5 of this season.
Another thing that gets on my nerves is Ron Moore's humble arrogance. In his podcasts he always knocks Star Trek. I never have much respect for people that bite the hand that feeds them. Also what the hell is his wife doing on the podcasts. She's sounds like such a nag.
I'm glad to see I'm not the only one that finds the show's gone down the tube.
Another thing that gets on my nerves is Ron Moore's humble arrogance. In his podcasts he always knocks Star Trek. I never have much respect for people that bite the hand that feeds them. Also what the hell is his wife doing on the podcasts. She's sounds like such a nag.
I'm glad to see I'm not the only one that finds the show's gone down the tube.
As a veteran of Afghanistan and Iraq and currently working as a contractor I have spent over four years in this part of the world to address terrorism. My main highlight during this entire period has been this show. It WAS fantastic but out of nowhere it seems Cyndy Sheehan got a hold of the writing to hold up some FAKE mirror and say the USA is the evil empire.
I have rarely been so dissappointed in my entire life as I was after watching the first two episodes on Armed Forces Network last night. It is outright offensive the show has become openly sympathetic to the insurgency in Iraq stealing real life themes and by extension portraying the USA as an evil aggressor.
I am SICK! This was by far the best show on TV EVER! Yet, in the span of two episodes it has become leftist trash. Are these the same writers as the previous seasons or did these guys get added this season to do something "special?"
I predict this may be the LAST season of Battlestar Galactica and something tells me I will not have to spend any more money on dvds on their account. What a waste!
The silver lining would be Grace Park getting a new series to highlight that HOT body and face. She is smoking! I hope she is not a leftist (mindless) actress ready to educate the world. I somehow suspect she is just a normal and decent girl - hot as heck though.
One "more" question - is Ronald Moore related to Michael Moore? I had to ask considering Michael Moore seems to be in charge of season 3.
If any of the actors (especially Grace Park) feel like saving this show they need to do a quick USO tour and I know they would understand why we are here. Nobody whose visited the troops walks away thinking we are some evil occupation force. Short of a USO salvation tour I don't believe this season can be saved and it will spell the end of this series.
kenboiraq@yahoo.com
I have rarely been so dissappointed in my entire life as I was after watching the first two episodes on Armed Forces Network last night. It is outright offensive the show has become openly sympathetic to the insurgency in Iraq stealing real life themes and by extension portraying the USA as an evil aggressor.
I am SICK! This was by far the best show on TV EVER! Yet, in the span of two episodes it has become leftist trash. Are these the same writers as the previous seasons or did these guys get added this season to do something "special?"
I predict this may be the LAST season of Battlestar Galactica and something tells me I will not have to spend any more money on dvds on their account. What a waste!
The silver lining would be Grace Park getting a new series to highlight that HOT body and face. She is smoking! I hope she is not a leftist (mindless) actress ready to educate the world. I somehow suspect she is just a normal and decent girl - hot as heck though.
One "more" question - is Ronald Moore related to Michael Moore? I had to ask considering Michael Moore seems to be in charge of season 3.
If any of the actors (especially Grace Park) feel like saving this show they need to do a quick USO tour and I know they would understand why we are here. Nobody whose visited the troops walks away thinking we are some evil occupation force. Short of a USO salvation tour I don't believe this season can be saved and it will spell the end of this series.
kenboiraq@yahoo.com
Many thanks to you and the other men and women who serve our country. Your hard work and sacrifice is very much appreciated.
I hope BSG will better showcase the good guys next season.
I hope BSG will better showcase the good guys next season.
#
posted by : 12/20/2006 9:03 AM
: 12/20/2006 9:03 AM
I Always Thought That BSG , Is Borrowing It's Plot From Bible Stories -\:
Adama And Roselin == Moses And Aron
Egyptians, pagans == Cylons
12 colonies == 12 tribes
new caprica == golden veil story
earth == the holly land
baltar == pagan king.
years in space == 40 years desert
well, this year they are trying to focus on the lonely years that the hebrews spent in desert (space), after escaping the egiptians (cylons). unfortunatly it means that the action levels reduced, the heroes are tired from battles with cylons and between themselfs.
Adama And Roselin == Moses And Aron
Egyptians, pagans == Cylons
12 colonies == 12 tribes
new caprica == golden veil story
earth == the holly land
baltar == pagan king.
years in space == 40 years desert
well, this year they are trying to focus on the lonely years that the hebrews spent in desert (space), after escaping the egiptians (cylons). unfortunatly it means that the action levels reduced, the heroes are tired from battles with cylons and between themselfs.
#
posted by : 12/20/2006 4:40 PM
: 12/20/2006 4:40 PM
Bible stories? Really??? Check about what Cylon was http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cylon_of_Athens. The Gods like Artemis, and the names Apollo etc are from the Bible? It’s better for you to watch less TV and go open a book … any book…
#
posted by : 12/24/2006 12:27 AM
: 12/24/2006 12:27 AM
That the show uses names borrowed from the greeks is hardly enough grounds to dismiss biblical allusions. Like in any story people will see different things in this one. If you disagree, perhaps you could voice your argument in a slightly more constructive way.
In any case this show has really become pathetic. The show used to have real grit, drama, and character development. In season three the characters have become one dimentional, irrational, and unbelievable.
I don't watch much television, but I am sad that this once great show is now so lame. BSG - rest in peace.
In any case this show has really become pathetic. The show used to have real grit, drama, and character development. In season three the characters have become one dimentional, irrational, and unbelievable.
I don't watch much television, but I am sad that this once great show is now so lame. BSG - rest in peace.
#
posted by : 1/01/2007 5:35 AM
: 1/01/2007 5:35 AM
Someone reassure me that Starbuck's "destiny" is other than finding out she's a cylon. Someone assure me that it is Baltar or someone else.
I really don't want to see Starbuck's character muddied anymore. And as a plea to the writers and RDM - Please do not go the path of "Botherhood with the Cylons". Please don't trash a great show.
I really don't want to see Starbuck's character muddied anymore. And as a plea to the writers and RDM - Please do not go the path of "Botherhood with the Cylons". Please don't trash a great show.
#
posted by : 1/03/2007 11:49 AM
: 1/03/2007 11:49 AM
Leaving aside about political allegories, the show has gotten crappy. The episodes have gotten really slow, the stakes have lowered, the Cylon's motivations are all over the place. I loved season one and two, not just for its political allusions, but for its exciting story telling. This year, I feel like entire episodes take place in slo-mo. My most damning complaint -- it's gotten incredibly boring.
#
posted by : 1/11/2007 1:19 PM
: 1/11/2007 1:19 PM
I have to admit I think the quality of the acting and the story lines have improved dramatically. Especially considering the first season.
It also had a good cliff hanger at the end of the last episode but anyone’s entitled to their opinion. I think BSG has become one of the best shows on tv
It also had a good cliff hanger at the end of the last episode but anyone’s entitled to their opinion. I think BSG has become one of the best shows on tv
#
posted by : 1/12/2007 3:30 AM
: 1/12/2007 3:30 AM
Season 3 has become too ethereal for my tastes. I just don't seem to have the same excitement for the show after the Season 2 finale... anyone agree?
#
posted by : 1/29/2007 2:10 AM
: 1/29/2007 2:10 AM
Enough with the moralizing! Where are the damn space battles? I thought I was watching a science fiction program, turns out its "Galactica 90210"!
#
posted by : 2/06/2007 1:06 AM
: 2/06/2007 1:06 AM
Yeah the show's pretty bad. I don't try to look for political inferences though. I was a major fan of the original but that's not why I don't like the show. You can't do an efficent blending of drama and sci fi inside of an hour. Mary McDonald is always elegant but Starbuck? I keep hearing how incredible she is from other people but frankly my golden retriever is more attractive than her. And why go so far against the grain as to cross gender so many characters from the original? I stopped watching a while back. Is Boomer dead yet? Do the humans ever stop fighting themselves long enough to fight the real enemy? And Baltar is SUCH a worm compared to the original. Now HE was a true snake. I'm sorry I do think Edward James Olmos is an incredible actor but Lorne Greene will always be the true Adama. This show really sucks. This was never by the far the best series ever on TV as I keep hearing. But it IS almost as painful to watch as listening to Natalie Maines mouth, what a gash, whoops I'm straying from the point which is they should have stopped after the mini-series. Stargate SG1 was such a far superior series in every way. The Go'auld would have already smoked Galactica and the rest of those flying dumpsters, and the Asgard would simply spank the cylons within the first 30 minutes of Season 1 episode 1 and the universe would be back to the way it's supposed to be. We don't want the Galactica here and if they knew what was waiting for them anyway they would be highly disappointed. What do they bring to the table?? Retire the series with some dignity. Damn Starbuck is ugly, she (he??) has one of those faces I wish I could un-see, but maybe she will be able to box someone who isn't such a sissy boy one day. Man they fucked this show up, I gotta go take a dump just from writing this.
#
posted by : 2/12/2007 6:22 PM
: 2/12/2007 6:22 PM
I think that the this new entire series of Battlestar Galactica is referencing the reality of our world, with political allegories to religious ideals. Like every tv-show writer, they want to incorporate characters that are in some ways similar to us that come from every walks of life, many of which are the average people in the everyday world. Thats what makes a TV show great. Unfortunately, Tv is media and the media can distort the reality of our world, only because its under their own opinion of how they see things. I think some of you are taking the political "trash" too seriously. They're only stating the obvious similarities in worlds to get the audience to relate better to the show, both political and religiously.
As for season 3, it has slowed down greatly in action as compared to action-addictive season 2. But I think we are all suffering from "action-withdrawal". There has only been about 6 episodes real no action, but it leaves the producers, directors and writers to make a cliffhanger like that of the end of season 2. I think that everyone should keep tuned to the season as I believe it will get better with time.
Think of it this way, if George Lucas would have produced episodes 1 2 and 3 first, with the basic storylines of the characters lives, then would you think Star Wars would be at where it is today? What other reason would Lucas decide to do episode 4,5 and 6 first for?(My opinion...)
Master_Ace (17 years old)
As for season 3, it has slowed down greatly in action as compared to action-addictive season 2. But I think we are all suffering from "action-withdrawal". There has only been about 6 episodes real no action, but it leaves the producers, directors and writers to make a cliffhanger like that of the end of season 2. I think that everyone should keep tuned to the season as I believe it will get better with time.
Think of it this way, if George Lucas would have produced episodes 1 2 and 3 first, with the basic storylines of the characters lives, then would you think Star Wars would be at where it is today? What other reason would Lucas decide to do episode 4,5 and 6 first for?(My opinion...)
Master_Ace (17 years old)
#
posted by : 2/26/2007 1:03 AM
: 2/26/2007 1:03 AM
BSG has totally sucked this season (3).
So many episodes are deep personal searches of self identity and relationship building.
This is the same line as LOST and JERICHO. Neither of which I can watch. Sorry, it's way too much like real life..
"Why won't you spend time with me and the baby!...Waaaa we never go out!"
"Gee honey, I though the fact we were fleeing killer robots and our society was destroyed may have priority here?"
It's all guy and gal arguments, peppered with moral lessons. Blech, what's left of my morals doesn't need this kind of teaching.
Suggestion: Giant bottle of Merlot or case of beer to get through this ongoing Melrose Place....
So many episodes are deep personal searches of self identity and relationship building.
This is the same line as LOST and JERICHO. Neither of which I can watch. Sorry, it's way too much like real life..
"Why won't you spend time with me and the baby!...Waaaa we never go out!"
"Gee honey, I though the fact we were fleeing killer robots and our society was destroyed may have priority here?"
It's all guy and gal arguments, peppered with moral lessons. Blech, what's left of my morals doesn't need this kind of teaching.
Suggestion: Giant bottle of Merlot or case of beer to get through this ongoing Melrose Place....
#
posted by : 3/02/2007 1:27 PM
: 3/02/2007 1:27 PM
What worries me is if this keeps up, the ratings will drop...the show will get canned, and a quick rewrite alla the first series and WOW they found earth already.
Stay tuned to see Starbuck on flying motorcycles and carrying invisibility gauntlets.
Stay tuned to see Starbuck on flying motorcycles and carrying invisibility gauntlets.
#
posted by : 3/02/2007 1:33 PM
: 3/02/2007 1:33 PM
Looks like quite a few other people agree this show is sucking hard. Look at the season 3 ratings, down from 4.x the first season and 3.x for the second season.
I agree with the view that some sort of poorly crafted political statement is trying to be made in season 3. I can barley stay awake through the new stuff. I find the new episodes numbing to say the least.
Sure, you can say that the writers are trying to evoke some sort of cerebral introspect into the human psyche, but c’mon man; it’s freaking 10pm on a Sunday night. Who the hell wants to use their brain to that capacity after a busy weekend? With ratings like this, I would be surprised if it makes it another season. Too bad, it had such potential.
3×01-02 - 1.8
3×03 - 1.6
3×04 - 1.5
3×05 - 1.4
3×06 - 1.5
3×07 - 1.5
3×08 - 1.3
I agree with the view that some sort of poorly crafted political statement is trying to be made in season 3. I can barley stay awake through the new stuff. I find the new episodes numbing to say the least.
Sure, you can say that the writers are trying to evoke some sort of cerebral introspect into the human psyche, but c’mon man; it’s freaking 10pm on a Sunday night. Who the hell wants to use their brain to that capacity after a busy weekend? With ratings like this, I would be surprised if it makes it another season. Too bad, it had such potential.
3×01-02 - 1.8
3×03 - 1.6
3×04 - 1.5
3×05 - 1.4
3×06 - 1.5
3×07 - 1.5
3×08 - 1.3
#
posted by : 3/02/2007 4:19 PM
: 3/02/2007 4:19 PM
Just as long as everyone knows it wasn't cancelled. They voluntarily decided to stop the show. Okay?
Post a Comment
#
posted by : 8/17/2007 2:35 PM
: 8/17/2007 2:35 PM