GALACTICA

But I thought Adama represents the military, which is right about everything?

Dude. It's the same show. Nothing's changed - the humans were never perfect, the Cylons were never completely unsympathetic. The only thing that's out of whack here is you and your insistence in seeing every detail of the show as a parable about the War on Terror - and if you can't pigeonhole the show as being pro-war, you pigeonhole the show as being anti-war (which is apparently the same thing as being anti-US).

Nuance. Subtlety. Shades of grey. Get used to them, or please do go back to the painfully blunt Cold War metaphors of the original series, please.
 

If we're supposed to believe Adama's black ops mission actually led to the genocidal Cylon attack, I ain't buying it.

More of my thoughts on the episode here.
 

I'm a Muslim fan of Galactica, and I don't like it when the likes of you designate a fictional enemy to a perceived one in real life.

Cylons can be anyone, but just let Cylons be Cylons and not anyone else.

Let us watch & enjoy this show in peace, please.
 

They send a ship a whopping 2 kilometers across the armistice line and suddenly Adama decides he re-started the war? With all of the Cylons running around the colonies, they had done a lot more than fly a ship slightly across the line. Since it was a black-ops mission, Bulldog most likely had a cover story of accidently crossing the line. Even if didn't, all he knew was that the humans wanted some intelligence as to Cylon intentions. Nothing there seems reasonably likely to set off a genocidal rampage. Rosalyn doesn't give any support other than Adama was just one man in a string of good "?" and bad actions over 40 years that lead to the Cylons' attack. This is really stupid since the mini-series implies that the humans haven't had contact with the Cylons for 40 years. Now in season 3 we are supposed to believe the humans committed actions that provoked the Cylons?

Dude. It's the same show.

No, this season is a wide departure from the previous two seasons. In seasons 1 and 2, humans may not have been brilliant or always right, but now they don't even deserve to live or defend themselves.

Nuance. Subtlety. Shades of grey.

At times they can be nice and make a story interesting. Constant attempts to muddy the water make for a frustrating experience. It also leads to the stupid plot holes that keep popping up. And this show isn't half as subtle as people like to believe.
 

Agreed, Terrahawk.

It is ridiculous to assume that both humans and Cylons were not "testing the waters" numerous times to get a feel as to what the other was doing. And as you say, too much "shades of gray" tends to become infuriating. This is what turned me off to the "X-Files." I couldn't keep track of what we were supposed to accept and not accept, or believe and not believe. It just got boring.
 

Although I have concerns with the number of potential plot holes being introduced in these episodes, I have to disagree with those who think the tenor of this season is a radical departure from those of the past two seasons.

Adama's first speech "you can't hide from the things you've done" was about the past actions of humans and their consequences. In Season 2, there was a conversation between Caprica-Sharon (now Athena) and Adama in which she specifically made reference to his statement in the context of discussing whether humans deserved to live.

Adama has consistently alternated between decisive force and self-doubt. That he might speculate that the covert action led to the attack is in character for him. I don't think the show is necessarily asking us to believe this ourselves, though, since it seems pretty clear to me that planning for the Cylon attack was well underway in advance of the covert op.

My criticisms of this episode are more about the continuity. The whole tone of the miniseries was about the Old Man and the old bucket (Galactica) going into retirement together, and then we learn he's only been commanding the Galactica for a year? Why did the Cylons bother keeping Bulldog alive, through a time when they seemed hell-bent on exterminating humanity? How did Bulldog figure out to transmit signals from the Raider, which even Starbuck couldn't do when she managed to fly one?
 

Terrahawk-

No, this season is a wide departure from the previous two seasons. In seasons 1 and 2, humans may not have been brilliant or always right, but now they don't even deserve to live or defend themselves.

They don't deserve to live? Kinda harsh, TH. I'm not exactly sure what specifically you're referring to here, but I will say that one man sabotaging a plan to launch biological warfare against the Cylons does not exactly suggest that the entire human race is worthless. I'll also point out that the "Previously on BSG" montage at the beginning of the show was a gigantic flashing arrow pointing to the themes from the miniseries and the first two seasons that this episode directly continued... but if you think it's a "wide departure" from those seasons, not a lot I can say.

Nuance. Subtlety. Shades of grey.

At times they can be nice and make a story interesting. Constant attempts to muddy the water make for a frustrating experience. It also leads to the stupid plot holes that keep popping up. And this show isn't half as subtle as people like to believe.

Every show always has plot holes - the holes for this version of BSG aren't even in the same league as the original series. And again, if muddy waters don't do it for you, you're more than welcome to watch the original series. The original Adama really was always right, much enjoyment may it give you.

As for how subtle the show is, we've been over this before - you refuse to see any meaning that's not a pro or con statement about the War on Terror, so there's not much left to say.
 

I don't think this episode was about blaming humanity for the war (though some previous episodes have hinted at that). But it was still an awful episode.

There were no shades of gray - just a lot of muddy water. Bulldog's capture and release makes no sense, since the Cyclons have never shown a propensity to take prisoners alive (until New Caprica).

Adama blaming himself for the war made little sense (notice how useless Adama has been the last two episodes?).

Plus, the Cylons seem to be flying around with no goal in mind. What happened to the plan? It seems like the plan was a bit more than Baltar getting threesomes with hot Cylon babes and funky dreams during reincarnation.
 

Chris
I'm not exactly sure what specifically you're referring to here, but I will say that one man sabotaging a plan to launch biological warfare against the Cylons does not exactly suggest that the entire human race is worthless.

Since Helo is made out to be the hero of the episode and escapes without consequence, I would say the point the writers wanted to make was that humanity doesn't deserve to live if they defend themselves.

Every show always has plot holes - the holes for this version of BSG aren't even in the same league as the original series.

Of course every show has plot holes. The point here is that the plot holes are semi-truck wide. They pop-out during the episodes not after some reflection. And comparing it to the old BSG is apples and oranges. First the old BSG is 70's era show written as an episodic series. The show had different expectations. Today's BSG is serialized and claims to be a much more realistic show. As such, it has a different standard.

And again, if muddy waters don't do it for you, you're more than welcome to watch the original series. The original Adama really was always right, much enjoyment may it give you.

First, there were a couple of episodes where Adama wasn't right and at least one where people went against him.

Second, I don't mind complex story lines that make sense. As ColossusHube pointed out, this is getting like X-Files where plotlines are brought up and discarded. Where plot holes are created and never addressed. As mentioned before, Babylon5 handled this much better. When the Vorlons turned out to be just as manipulative as the Shadows, it made sense. The foundation had been laid in previous episodes. It didn't feel like a sudden departure from everything you knew before. When Sheridan was faced with breaking away from Earth, it took several episodes and you understood what it took to reach the decision. With the psy-corps and their issues, you could see the reasons for and against. BSG has gotten to the point of just throwing issues out their and not addressing them.

As for how subtle the show is, we've been over this before - you refuse to see any meaning that's not a pro or con statement about the War on Terror, so there's not much left to say.

Where did I mention anything about WoT in this thread? This is about the continuity and ridiculous plot points of this episode.
 

Interesting. Your blog says much more about you than the show. I do enjoy the subtleties of the show and the fact that it offers the opportunity to draw such parallels to the real world. Slave to the times are you, my friend? Chuckle...
 

"Nuance. Subtlety. Shades of grey. Get used to them, or please do go back to the painfully blunt Cold War metaphors of the original series, please."


So how come the Cold War metaphors were so apparent to you in the old series, Chris, but the OBVIOUS parallels seem to be lost on you? Why do you believe this show deserves to be examined with any level of subtlety when it is completely noticeable to EVERYONE else that this show has become a soap box for the show runners to voice their political beliefs?