Tuesday, October 10, 2006
President Baltar and Saddam Hussein
I previously supported Baltar for president. Of course that was based on the Baltar from Season 1 and early Season 2. How could I possibly know that the writers of the show would totally change the Baltar character in order to make a left wing political statement?
Now of course we all know that Baltar is a psychologically flawed individual (assuming he's human and not a Cylon). But is the scene at the end of season 2.5, showing him as a completely corrupt, womanizing, possibly substance abusing tyrant, really a logical result of a year of Baltar's leadership?
The Baltar of the first two seasons is a weak willed and cowardly individual. But we never saw him take advantage of his position as Vice President and the most brilliant mind in the fleet in order to get cheap sex. That was Lee Adama's thing.
Baltar was very conscious of how others saw him. He was a flashy dresser and was always trying to get people to see him as brilliant. President Baltar would try to get people to like him, which is inconsistent with the Baltar we saw at the very end of Season 2 when the Cylons took over.
What happened to Tom Zarek? We assumed that he would be pulling a lot of the strings behind Baltar's presidency, and he seemed like he genuinely cared about the freedom of the people.
When Roslyn did dumb stuff, Adama stepped in to stop him. If Baltar was letting New Caprica go to hell, why didn't Adama step in?
It seems to me that the writers didn't care at all about the consistency of the characters. Because they had a political point to make. They needed Baltar to be as much like Saddam Hussein as possible in order create an analagous situation. The United States took over Iraq in order to liberate the Iraqis from Saddam Hussein. The Cylons liberated the humans from Baltar. If the humans had a well functioning democratic government, then the similaritiy between the two situations would be a lot weaker.
Baltar's fall is just one of many things the writers did that don't make sense so they could make the Cylon occupation of New Caprica as close as possible to the U.S. occupation of Iraq.
Comments:
I hadn't thought about that, but you are correct with that observation. Baltar wasn't a real likeable figure, but he was more of a tragic figure. Now, he's...I don't know.
I thought they compeletely changed Rosalyn's character. I mean, she goes from someone willing to space Cylons, split the fleet, suggest the assasination of the ranking fleet officer, and stand up to Adama for what she believes to be right, to someone who won't steal an election even though she firmly believes the person to be a Cylon agent.
I thought last season showed an unwillingness to really address the situation these people are in in a realistic manner. For example, population growth is limited by the number of females of child-bearing age. Does it make sense to have women in their child-bearing years in combat? Think about genetic issues. The abortion episode, with it's standard cliches of religious parents and agonizing over a lack of "choice", highligted in my mind that Moore, et. al. weren't willing to be interesting and truly look at the situation. Instead BSG is looking more like an attempt by the writers to push their agenda and make the story "relevant" to today.
I thought they compeletely changed Rosalyn's character. I mean, she goes from someone willing to space Cylons, split the fleet, suggest the assasination of the ranking fleet officer, and stand up to Adama for what she believes to be right, to someone who won't steal an election even though she firmly believes the person to be a Cylon agent.
I thought last season showed an unwillingness to really address the situation these people are in in a realistic manner. For example, population growth is limited by the number of females of child-bearing age. Does it make sense to have women in their child-bearing years in combat? Think about genetic issues. The abortion episode, with it's standard cliches of religious parents and agonizing over a lack of "choice", highligted in my mind that Moore, et. al. weren't willing to be interesting and truly look at the situation. Instead BSG is looking more like an attempt by the writers to push their agenda and make the story "relevant" to today.
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posted by 
: 10/10/2006 3:17 PM
: 10/10/2006 3:17 PM
A question that I have not been able to find the answer to -- when is this latest episode of battlestar galactica going to be released on itunes? or anywhere else on the internet?
my brother is in baghdad and still has access to the internet, but obviously no access to television. any ideas?
my brother is in baghdad and still has access to the internet, but obviously no access to television. any ideas?
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posted by : 10/10/2006 4:06 PM
: 10/10/2006 4:06 PM
"When Roslyn did dumb stuff, Adama stepped in to stop him. If Baltar was letting New Caprica go to hell, why didn't Adama step in?
It seems to me that the writers didn't care at all about the consistency of the characters. Because they had a political point to make. They needed Baltar to be as much like Saddam Hussein as possible in order create an analagous situation. The United States took over Iraq in order to liberate the Iraqis from Saddam Hussein. The Cylons liberated the humans from Baltar. If the humans had a well functioning democratic government, then the similaritiy between the two situations would be a lot weaker."
FIrst of all, I really think that you are wrong about them keeping with the consistency of the characters. Adama didn't step in during that year where Baltar drove New Caprica into the ground because he couldn't. Didn't you see Season2's finale? Since Baltar began his campaign and won, he has been powerhungry and stubborn. The writers incinuated that Adama was no longer needed. His advice is obsolete at that time. Just because you didn't see it, doesn't mean its hard to realize.
I totally agree with you, however, that this has been very much influenced by the war. I'm not sure if this is supposed to be the creators' speaking out about the war, but it is surely influenced from it.
I just watched the end of s3ep1&2 and I really hope they killed off Roselin and the rest. Why? I like change. Roselin doesn't seem to be able to contribute to the new plotlines.
It seems to me that the writers didn't care at all about the consistency of the characters. Because they had a political point to make. They needed Baltar to be as much like Saddam Hussein as possible in order create an analagous situation. The United States took over Iraq in order to liberate the Iraqis from Saddam Hussein. The Cylons liberated the humans from Baltar. If the humans had a well functioning democratic government, then the similaritiy between the two situations would be a lot weaker."
FIrst of all, I really think that you are wrong about them keeping with the consistency of the characters. Adama didn't step in during that year where Baltar drove New Caprica into the ground because he couldn't. Didn't you see Season2's finale? Since Baltar began his campaign and won, he has been powerhungry and stubborn. The writers incinuated that Adama was no longer needed. His advice is obsolete at that time. Just because you didn't see it, doesn't mean its hard to realize.
I totally agree with you, however, that this has been very much influenced by the war. I'm not sure if this is supposed to be the creators' speaking out about the war, but it is surely influenced from it.
I just watched the end of s3ep1&2 and I really hope they killed off Roselin and the rest. Why? I like change. Roselin doesn't seem to be able to contribute to the new plotlines.
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posted by : 10/11/2006 2:24 PM
: 10/11/2006 2:24 PM
I guess Baltar would waste his power in booze and women either given what we know about him. Maybe he felt remorse for giving the nuke to the Six in the peace movement that she used to blow up the fleet? At least that's the connection I made when I first saw that last season. Was the Six in his brain still around? Maybe he was adrift.
However, you are right that it doesn't gibe with previous character in the absense of trauma or guilt over the nuke - so if that connection was intended, it doesn't make sense.
I thought he had an epiphany with Chip Six when they went to that older planet, and was supposed to become the human missionary of the Cylon religion, thus his entry into politics as directed by Chip Six. He was really obsessed with the half-cylon baby too. Why didn't he use his new power in the direction of bringing humans to the light, or looking for the baby. It seems like he would be a lot more in control and demanding - and you would see more of a personality cult if he were a dictator-type.
Even Saddam didn't spend all his time in debauchery (That was more Uday's thing). A lot of it was spent making himself look good and omnipresent.
However, you are right that it doesn't gibe with previous character in the absense of trauma or guilt over the nuke - so if that connection was intended, it doesn't make sense.
I thought he had an epiphany with Chip Six when they went to that older planet, and was supposed to become the human missionary of the Cylon religion, thus his entry into politics as directed by Chip Six. He was really obsessed with the half-cylon baby too. Why didn't he use his new power in the direction of bringing humans to the light, or looking for the baby. It seems like he would be a lot more in control and demanding - and you would see more of a personality cult if he were a dictator-type.
Even Saddam didn't spend all his time in debauchery (That was more Uday's thing). A lot of it was spent making himself look good and omnipresent.
I don't think the writers of the show are really attempting to make the story line that analogous to the situation in Iraq. While they are using some material and issues that are brought up by the way I think it would be wrong to say they are pushing an agenda.
Do we really agree (as viewers) that suicide bombing is a legetimate strategy? Don't we side with Baltar when he demands that suicide bombing stop? Of course. On the side of the cylons though don't we agree with Number Six and Cylon Sharon? Is there some party in our country who takes the side of the Priest Cylon? I think the issue is a bit more complex. I don't think this can count as jumping the shark because last season they did the same thing.
Also, Roslyn didn't just decide not to steal the election but was actually on the verge of also being caught. This first episode makes Roslyn morality clear when Roslyn notes that she wished she had.
Anyway, I could be considered a "liberal" and I don't find any glee in the episode "disproving" Bush. I do think though that it does make you "think" but that if you don't "think" throughly about it you can claim that it is some leftish statment or victory on both sides. For example, can you blame Baltar for acting the way he does? For the cylon's doesn't it seem more logical for them to simply leave?
Sorry for the long post but I think any real reason for "jumping the shark" should be the flabby character of this first episode. It seemed too long and had a lot of unneeded expostion.
Do we really agree (as viewers) that suicide bombing is a legetimate strategy? Don't we side with Baltar when he demands that suicide bombing stop? Of course. On the side of the cylons though don't we agree with Number Six and Cylon Sharon? Is there some party in our country who takes the side of the Priest Cylon? I think the issue is a bit more complex. I don't think this can count as jumping the shark because last season they did the same thing.
Also, Roslyn didn't just decide not to steal the election but was actually on the verge of also being caught. This first episode makes Roslyn morality clear when Roslyn notes that she wished she had.
Anyway, I could be considered a "liberal" and I don't find any glee in the episode "disproving" Bush. I do think though that it does make you "think" but that if you don't "think" throughly about it you can claim that it is some leftish statment or victory on both sides. For example, can you blame Baltar for acting the way he does? For the cylon's doesn't it seem more logical for them to simply leave?
Sorry for the long post but I think any real reason for "jumping the shark" should be the flabby character of this first episode. It seemed too long and had a lot of unneeded expostion.
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posted by : 10/13/2006 1:13 AM
: 10/13/2006 1:13 AM
I seem to recall a lot of praise heaped on the writers for your ridiculous perception that they were making a right-wing statement (though you'd never have phrased it that way), and now that you perceive they've suddenly reversed course, you admonish them.
If you think the writers decided to change course to reflect the embarrassing debacle of Iraq, I suggest you go rent Caligula and see if you can recognize any Baltar in him. And maybe brush up on the history of every other friggin war of occupation in history.
If you think the writers decided to change course to reflect the embarrassing debacle of Iraq, I suggest you go rent Caligula and see if you can recognize any Baltar in him. And maybe brush up on the history of every other friggin war of occupation in history.
Your analogy doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Baltar wasn't deposed like Hussein, but maintained as president of a puppet government. An suicide bombings are a common element of modern warfare not at all limited to Iraq. The writers have said that the current plotline is not a direct analogy to Iraq at all. You're absolutely right that it makes for a bad, unintersting analogy... because you have to reach to make that analogy. It doesn't work. If you watched the show through the prism of history rather than the tunnel vision of current events, you might realize this.
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posted by : 10/18/2006 5:51 PM
: 10/18/2006 5:51 PM
I think that the current plot does take into account current day issue, but not how we would see it. I think it shows that at the brink of extinction an inslaved human will no any thing to break the chains of slavery. I think they use suicide bombings because now a days people can relate to it better. It addresses an issue that people understand. I that although it's a dumb idea because the cylons don't care if they die, but it's not a leftwing agenda, and I consider myself to be very right wing.
As for Baltar, I saw this coming because he's a brillant man, but the worst leader. This is proven even in his vice presidency. He always tried to find away to get out of the leadership position. And what makes it worse is his arrogancy and selfishness. If you recall back to the 1st, 2nd, and even the miniseries the only person he ever cared about was himself. If you recall back to when six came aboard the galactica and told them that Baltar gave the Cylons the codes to the defense system on Caprica, he nearly pooped himself. He only cares about himself and that has remained constant. I think that he does resemble Hussien, but is analogsis of him because Sadaam didn't work with the US when we invade instead he fought until the end. And yes Baltar does express the same characistics as Sadaam like cowardness and selfishness, but that doesnt mean that Baltar represents Sadaam
Oh and by the way I am glad that the Cylons showed up, because the people were miserable on new Caprica, having to search for medicans and food. This way they'll have to leave and find the true Earth not some pit stop
As for Baltar, I saw this coming because he's a brillant man, but the worst leader. This is proven even in his vice presidency. He always tried to find away to get out of the leadership position. And what makes it worse is his arrogancy and selfishness. If you recall back to the 1st, 2nd, and even the miniseries the only person he ever cared about was himself. If you recall back to when six came aboard the galactica and told them that Baltar gave the Cylons the codes to the defense system on Caprica, he nearly pooped himself. He only cares about himself and that has remained constant. I think that he does resemble Hussien, but is analogsis of him because Sadaam didn't work with the US when we invade instead he fought until the end. And yes Baltar does express the same characistics as Sadaam like cowardness and selfishness, but that doesnt mean that Baltar represents Sadaam
Oh and by the way I am glad that the Cylons showed up, because the people were miserable on new Caprica, having to search for medicans and food. This way they'll have to leave and find the true Earth not some pit stop
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posted by : 10/18/2006 9:43 PM
: 10/18/2006 9:43 PM
a) Adama didn't step in during the year on New Caprica because who wants to listen to the military when there is no threat of attack? The colonials believed that the nebula would protect them from the Cylons and that their flight was over, so Adama became irrelevant. Even Roselin to an extent, I felt that I could excuse her reluctance to step in against Baltar because when she did those things in Season 1-2, it was because she felt that she had to for the safety of the human race. With the threat of the Cylons (seemingly) gone, she didn't have to compromise her morals anymore.
b) I think the great thing about sci-fi is that it allows writers to explore current events without being too 'in-your-face' by basing things in the present. If you really think about it, the series is not a perfect allegory of the Iraq war, but it does bring up and explore facets of the situation over there that are interesting to think about. I'm glad they went this way.
b) I think the great thing about sci-fi is that it allows writers to explore current events without being too 'in-your-face' by basing things in the present. If you really think about it, the series is not a perfect allegory of the Iraq war, but it does bring up and explore facets of the situation over there that are interesting to think about. I'm glad they went this way.
the whole point is moral ambiguity. we side with the suicide bombers, who are kinda wrong, AND baltar, who is kinda wrong. that's the beauty of the show. don't try to explain or complain away the inconsistencies just because they make you uncomfortable. who couldn't see the lurking potential for baltar to be a really bad president? what's so wrong with showing a possible reasonable justification for suicide bombings? that's not a liberal agenda so much as a challenge for us all to think.
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posted by : 10/21/2006 2:31 AM
: 10/21/2006 2:31 AM
You supported Baltar for president? What were you thinking?!? He has a Cylon Implant in his brain that is telling him what to do!
"When the war is over, the Baltar supporters will be the first to hang, and we'll be the ones tightening the noose!"
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"When the war is over, the Baltar supporters will be the first to hang, and we'll be the ones tightening the noose!"
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posted by : 10/27/2006 5:29 PM
: 10/27/2006 5:29 PM